Stock manifold removal question

Jae 'Bird

Jae 'Bird

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Dec 11, 2023
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Edmonton, Canada
Vehicle Details
1990 Ford Thunderbird Base with PEP 151A, 3.8L NA V-6
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Question, I am considering removing the exhaust manifolds for two reason, I want to wire brush the loose rust off of them and the wrap them in titanium wrap to help lower the under-hood temps. I know you guys might say that its not worth the effort and then temps aren't that high but it would be a fun for me mod that fits my budget. My question is if I remove the manifold, should I replace the studs and nuts that hold it on there? is there anything else that might cause me problems? I know it would be a little tough to get the rusty hardware off but that's always a given. Thanks for any input
 
If the manifolds aren’t leaking, don’t mess with it! They are not easy to get to, and if you break a stud or 3, then you are stuck having to deal with that before you get back on the road, and without a lift, a welder and an acetylene torch, that can be a daunting task! And since you can hardly see the exhaust manifolds, it just wouldn’t be worth the effort. There are plenty of other small projects you can tackle instead that will give you better results with less headaches.
 
Alright, that's fair, thanks. I guess I could also try to wrap them on the car, and theres no risk cause if it doesn't work, its just a wrap that can be removed
 
I have always heard that wrapping the manifolds can cause them to rust out. Maybe that mostly applies to aftermarket parts not stock manifolds?
 
Sometimes, when our healthy car obsession gets the best of us, and we just absolutely want to tinker with something...anything, this great community's job is simply to talk us out of it.

Remember when I was talking about adding 40+ lbs of electrical motors to my car to add power adjustments for seats which are literally never adjusted by anybody? Thanks to you all, I didn't.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Wraps aren’t worth doing on manifolds with stock(or even moderately above stock) power levels IMO. There are more worthwhile gains to be had elsewhere for similar effort
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My goal was simply to keep more heat in the exhaust and let less of it into the engine bay, I figure even with a stock car, its a good thing to reduce engine bay heat. It was never to increase power or nothing
 
You're welcome to give it a stab, it will do something. Kind of like wrapping the A/C lines in more insulation. Even if the effect is hard to quantify, at the very least it makes you feel better about your car - and that's worthwhile. :)
 
Alright, that's encouraging, there would be no actual risk in titanium exhaust wrap right? like the headers are already quite rusty so if I wire brush them and then install it I cant damage anything right?
 
Only downsides I could see would be possible increases in wear by retaining moisture and accelerating corrosion, and the additional abrasiveness due to contact under vibration. Both a bit of a stretch IMO.
 
Cast iron tends to take decades to rust through in the worst of situations. I think header wrap is much worse for thin steel headers than anything…

….but does header wrap actually help? Color me pessimistic. It’s a lot of work to actually wrap effectively and while I acknowledge the scenarios it’s beneficial a NA 3.8 or 4.6 or 5.0 etc aren’t fitting those scenarios. There’s more fun things to waste time and money on IMO
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Cast iron tends to take decades to rust through in the worst of situations. I think header wrap is much worse for thin steel headers than anything…

….but does header wrap actually help? Color me pessimistic. It’s a lot of work to actually wrap effectively and while I acknowledge the scenarios it’s beneficial a NA 3.8 or 4.6 or 5.0 etc aren’t fitting those scenarios. There’s more fun things to waste time and money on IMO
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Are you doubting its thermal insulating capabilities? I don't see why it wouldn't help keep less heat from going into the engine bay rather than the exhaust. Also, does it matter what engine and whether its stock or not effect the benefit of keeping excess heat out of the engine bay? I'm not arguing, just want to learn more and figure out if its worth it or not. I guess my simpleton thinking was "less heat in engine bay is better" I don't see how its could be a bad thing.
 
It does work with keeping down thermal. But it is also awesome at trapping in moisture and helping speed up the process of corrosion.

If it's a daily, leave the stuff off.
 
removal and inside and out ceramic coating would be far superior then heat wrap. you'll spend hours wraping just to have them fall apart after a few months.
 
Jae 'Bird said:
Are you doubting its thermal insulating capabilities? I don't see why it wouldn't help keep less heat from going into the engine bay rather than the exhaust. Also, does it matter what engine and whether its stock or not effect the benefit of keeping excess heat out of the engine bay? I'm not arguing, just want to learn more and figure out if its worth it or not. I guess my simpleton thinking was "less heat in engine bay is better" I don't see how its could be a bad thing.
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It’s not that I doubt the effectiveness as a thermal barrier, wrap does what’s designed to do. Its the keeping heat out of the engine bay to the end of gaining performance from it I don’t find very worthwhile, and like @Sik97bird said, it’s really internal coating that helps with that more.

Heat in the engine bay doesn’t really matter, the air going into the engine is ducted into the airbox from outside afterall(unless of course it was deleted for a so-called “CAI”)
 
Trying to reduce under hood temps is a moot point; the cooling system from the factory on these cars works very well.
:bdh:
 
How quick can you pull the engine to drill out snapped studs? When I rebuilt an '04 3v, I wound up buying all new studs cause so many of them broke-and I had the heads out of the truck already. They are small diameter and some were not stuck at all. If you do change them, consider using Nord lockwashers as they don't back off much w/ heat cycling.
 
Generalee0527 said:
How quick can you pull the engine to drill out snapped studs? When I rebuilt an '04 3v, I wound up buying all new studs cause so many of them broke-and I had the heads out of the truck already. They are small diameter and some were not stuck at all. If you do change them, consider using Nord lockwashers as they don't back off much w/ heat cycling.
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Is this a question for me? I don't have the provisions to pull my motor or the technical skill/knowledge yet. I hope to be there one day but for now, the motor has to stay in the car
 
So in my option you answered your own question of should you pull the manifolds... It's much harder to get them off with the engine in the car because of studs breaking.. So if your unable or unsure how to pull the engine I'd leave the manifolds completely alone. Your playing with a bee hive there is my opinion and we'll the sting...
 
Jae 'Bird said:
Is this a question for me? I don't have the provisions to pull my motor or the technical skill/knowledge yet. I hope to be there one day but for now, the motor has to stay in the car
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you don't have to pull the engine out, drop the SUB frame. use an engine support brace remove the alternator attach chains. once the frame is out of the way you can lower the engine down about 5in and you have clear access. This is the only way except pulling the engine. with installing kooks headers this is the best way and the least amount of "what ifs"
 
Yes on the Hornets nest analogy. I recall the 3v Triton when I removed 4 or 5 easy peasy then pop pop &&÷*$>&@**:- what did I do different? I've never attempted to lower my kmember but I might as I need to replace that 25 yr oil leak called an oil pan gasket.😁
 
Well I understand removing manifold studs can be done a few ways. What I was getting at was if your uncertain how to pull the engine then most likely most of the ways you would need to know/do to get broken studs would be equally difficult for the OP to do and it's not at all a knock on his or anyone elses skill set. We are all cable if learning that's why we have 30+ year cars.. It's more of a precaution to the op they may want to reconsider the project at the current time
Maybe wait until more significant repairs have to done and tackle that at the same time if said repairs would gain better access.
 
97teebs said:
Well I understand removing manifold studs can be done a few ways. What I was getting at was if your uncertain how to pull the engine then most likely most of the ways you would need to know/do to get broken studs would be equally difficult for the OP to do and it's not at all a knock on his or anyone elses skill set. We are all cable if learning that's why we have 30+ year cars.. It's more of a precaution to the op they may want to reconsider the project at the current time
Maybe wait until more significant repairs have to done and tackle that at the same time if said repairs would gain better access.
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Thats a very good point, I was surprised I opened such a can of worms with such a simple inquiry, I had no idea exhaust wrap had so many opinions. Although googling also revealed to me that motorbike guys and Honda guys feel very much the same way we do about it.
 
I don't have any real strong opinions about exhaust wrap. I do have strong opinions about exhaust work. I'd rather stick my hand in a blender than voluntarily do exhaust work on a northern car. When you watch a youtube video of some guy in Arizona removing the factory exhaust on his 30 year old car with a couple of hand tools in 15 minutes, know that it has absolutely no grounding in reality for you.
 
KevinVarnes said:
I don't have any real strong opinions about exhaust wrap. I do have strong opinions about exhaust work. I'd rather stick my hand in a blender than voluntarily do exhaust work on a northern car. When you watch a youtube video of some guy in Arizona removing the factory exhaust on his 30 year old car with a couple of hand tools in 15 minutes, know that it has absolutely no grounding in reality for you.
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And that is a major reason I’m glad not to be in the north any longer.
 
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