Where in the hell are the washers?

[LukesCougar]

I had the OEM replica rears/ poly front strut rod bushings installed at the shop.. but where in the hell are the washers?

Got the car back, steering feels infinitely better and the binding sensation is gone, but looking underneath I'm curious were
the rears installed correctly..? there aren't any washer holding them and I had forwarded instructions from SCP to them.

 

[Bill H]

That sucks.
I think the bar should be bend-side down…looks sideways.
I really think you need the washers. I would take it back.

 

[LukesCougar]

That sucks.
I think the bar should be bend-side down…looks sideways.
I really think you need the washers. I would take it back.

I just wasnt even sure if that side needed washers. It looks like the fronts were atleast installed right and it feels better than the aftermarket garbage, but if there has to be washers there i will be going back

 

[97 30th]

I believe the washers are there to keep the strut rod from pulling through the bushing if it should fail.

 

[LukesCougar]

well i took it back in, theyre gonna redo it all again i guess. This is getting to a frustrating realization i should learn to do this work myself. Only thing that sucks is my tools are limited and someone still has to align it.

Bill said to use the moog, mevotech whatever washers and that they will do the job. My factory cup washers are long gone.

 

[KevinVarnes]

Yes, you can run whatever OEM or aftermarket parts you want in the strut rod to control arm position.

 

[CDsDontBurn]

That sucks.
I think the bar should be bend-side down…looks sideways.
I really think you need the washers. I would take it back.

I think it's the angle is weird. Looking at my Dirty Bird, (opposite direction, same area) you can see and compare the two. I would think that his is correctly oriented.

 

[LukesCougar]

I think it's the angle is weird. Looking at my Dirty Bird, (opposite direction, same area) you can see and compare the two.

i kind of see what you mean? i assume this would be an alignment or final torque issue? car is going back in monday. I went in after verifying that washers are needed there and lo and behold their techs are holding a box of "extra parts". smh

 

[LukesCougar]

the good news is these front poly bushings are super beefy, and dont seem to bind up like the aftermarket stuff. Now im just worried about good parts exploding

 

[Bill H]

As long as the concave part of the rod is oriented up, should be good to go. Luke’s photo makes it appear that it’s sideways, facing in.

 

[LukesCougar]

If they use the washers from the mevotech/ aftermarket stuff do they need to be compressing the oem bushings or inversed like the oem cup washers? i Assumed have them reinstall as if they were using aftermarket bushings but all the pictures ive seen show an inverted washer

 

[LukesCougar]

should the same be done for the aftermarket washers?

 

[Bill H]

I used this to reassemble mine.

 

[LukesCougar]

I used this to reassemble mine.

im gonna save this for reference and show to shop

 

[LukesCougar]

Here is what I mean though. Pic from the cougar that is in the process of being sold The washers they have are the same style as these, but now that I'm on oem bushings again in the rear and the oem washers are long gone.. can they just invert the moog style washers so they aren't pinching the bushings?

 

[Grog6]

Never get rid of any factory washers.
I had to source a set when I did the koni's.
You can't buy a washer like the one on top of the front shock.

 

[LukesCougar]

Never get rid of any factory washers.
I had to source a set when I did the koni's.
You can't buy a washer like the one on top of the front shock.

well tbsc has the washers i need for 5$ a pop, but the car is going back into the shop monday and all i have is the moog ones so if they would work inverted i would use them for now

 

[Zep5.0]

well tbsc has the washers i need for 5$ a pop, but the car is going back into the shop monday and all i have is the moog ones so if they would work inverted i would use them for now

I'm sure they will be fine, as long as they torque against the bushing and are wider than the hole, they are doing what they are meant to do.

 

[LukesCougar]

I'm sure they will be fine, as long as they torque against the bushing and are wider than the hole, they are doing what they are meant to do

alright i just didnt want to throw them on as if i was using the moog bushings still, ill have them installed inverted then.

i might still order 4 of the oem washers just incase this fails. 3 year warranty on the scp bushings but idk if that will still hold up with improper installation being documented

 

[LukesCougar]

Actually i apologize im losing my mind here. Even the "inverted" washers still cup the bushing on the shallow side. so i will install them conventionally and have them run the full range of suspension to make sure they arent binding

 

[Zep5.0]

I might have a set of stockers, but it would take me a few weeks to get to them. LMK if you need them, but those should be fine.

 

[LukesCougar]

Alright thanks i will let you know.
I'm heading to the shop now because theyre confused cause I brought up the washers. I'm gonna have them install them conventionally cupping the bushing and hopefully it will pivot fine like it should. If not I'll invert them

 

[LukesCougar]

Good news! By some miracle they still had the oem washers laying around. Along with the moog/ mevotech style washers.

Oem washers lca/ strut rod bushings, and the front 1961 lincoln continental polys are on there and the car is aligned so let's hope this is the last time I have to touch these bushings until the car rots from underneath itself!!!

 

[XR7-4.6]

4 years going with the 61 Continental polys here!

20+ years strong with the blue moogs in the LCA side

 

[LukesCougar]

4 years going with the 61 Continental polys here!

20+ years strong with the blue moogs in the LCA side

Id keep them around if thats the case, but i didnt want my steering to be much firmer than it already was. Feels much better with the soft bushings at the arm.

Also. idk if you had the same experience but my nose dive is basically gone with the beefy 1961 continental bushings, and less wander on braking

 

[XR7-4.6]

Id keep them around if thats the case, but i didnt want my steering to be much firmer than it already was. Feels much better with the soft bushings at the arm.

Also. idk if you had the same experience but my nose dive is basically gone with the beefy 1961 continental bushings, and less wander on braking

When I say 20+ years with mine I mean they were on my car when I bought the thing! I have no baseline to compare to the OEM ones in feel, but fundamentally they don’t impact steering feel. Strut rod bushings on either end by the nature of their purpose are there to absorb road imperfections(pot holes, washboard surfaces, expansion joints etc), where steering firmness is primarily determined by the caster angle or (to much lesser extent) rack bushings.

And yes I vastly prefer the Continental bushings

 

[LukesCougar]

When I say 20+ years with mine I mean they were on my car when I bought the thing! I have no baseline to compare to the OEM ones in feel, but fundamentally they don’t impact steering feel. Strut rod bushings on either end by the nature of their purpose are there to absorb road imperfections(pot holes, washboard surfaces, expansion joints etc), where steering firmness is primarily determined by the caster angle or (to much lesser extent) rack bushings.

And yes I vastly prefer the Continental bushings

im not super literate or experienced with suspension but if that is the case why would the binding go away with these softer bushings/ poly fronts that only happened when turning? Could it of just been the moog bushings up front popping themselves instead of it just being so tight that it was winding the arms?

Im always waiting for the possibility of a joint that is hiding its face but waiting to go, but my steering definitely felt "smoother" less tight and notchy.

 

[XR7-4.6]

im not super literate or experienced with suspension but if that is the case why would the binding go away with these softer bushings/ poly fronts that only happened when turning? Could it of just been the moog bushings up front popping themselves instead of it just being so tight that it was winding the arms?

Im always waiting for the possibility of a joint that is hiding its face but waiting to go, but my steering definitely felt "smoother" less tight and notchy.

I really don’t have an answer for that because these bushings really can’t cause that. Steering binding and resistance my mind goes to ball joints or tie rods….. but….. if the strut rods themselves are oriented wrong they could interfere with the tie rods, they have that kink in them specifically to avoid that scenario, so if they are sideways they could have been binding with the toe rods. They didn’t look that way in your previous pics though.

 

[LukesCougar]

I really don’t have an answer for that because these bushings really can’t cause that. Steering binding and resistance my mind goes to ball joints or tie rods….. but….. if the strut rods themselves are oriented wrong they could interfere with the tie rods, they have that kink in them specifically to avoid that scenario, so if they are sideways they could have been binding with the toe rods. They didn’t look that way in your previous pics though.

I do see that as a possibility, i mean the first set of moog front strut rod bushings exploded, second set got too loose. Idk how much movement that allows for or if it would damage the tie rod or if they had it in the correct orientation when the binding was happening.

Looking at how the strut rod connects to the arm i see what you mean though. there just isnt a whole lot of movement or a chance for binding to happen. It just holds it in place and allows for just a little bit of movement at the arm right? The binding did get worse on sloped turns where the arms have to move up while i was turning. Ill really have to drive it around more thoroughly and see if it comes back, because it probably was just a joint and with my luck its hiding its face and ill have something else to fix soon

 

[Kidd-7]

If you alignment was off before this adventure that could affect how you felt the steering.