Where in the hell are the washers?

[LukesCougar]

Long shot and not likely your issue, but you don't happen to have a broken coil spring do you? Not uncommon for the front springs to break off the last coil near the bottom. Just thinking out loud.

They look fine, and are less than 2 years old.

I will re-check that just incase, my mechanic did claim it may be a "strut" when we first started talking about these issues. only issue is we dont have struts, nothing can rotate as far as i know and i dont know but how much the coilovers would pivot vs the strut rod? i just dont see a good chance for anything there to bind up and i have also attempted to re torque the above nuts, and the lower bolt-control arm for the shock to no avail

 

[LukesCougar]

Yeah no broken springs*, the rubber mount looks to be fine too, no tears

 

[KevinVarnes]

I was mainly wondering if change in load on the suspension would cause a broken coil to shift and pop back into place. Like I said, it was a long shot, but I was reminded of it while doing some brake work on my car. I'd almost be tempted to remove the shock and articulate the suspension to see if you could reproduce the sound/motion. I'm surprised that you can't see anything with any of the videos. In the first video you posted you can see the camera shake when it pops. You can usually see when something moves like that.

 

[LukesCougar]

I was mainly wondering if change in load on the suspension would cause a broken coil to shift and pop back into place. Like I said, it was a long shot, but I was reminded of it while doing some brake work on my car. I'd almost be tempted to remove the shock and articulate the suspension to see if you could reproduce the sound/motion. I'm surprised that you can't see anything with any of the videos. In the first video you posted you can see the camera shake when it pops. You can usually see when something moves like that.

If there is some rhyme to my own recent reasoning, which seems very doubtful based on the opinions ive recieved. The only visible movement would be captured at the front most bushing. if it was actually acting as a plane that can slip and make the sleeve ping the frame bracket or just the bushing itself teeter tottering and snapping when it finds a resting position

In my mind the flanged bushing should be at the front most of the rod. When the wheels go back that rod wants to suck backwards aswell and the bushing that would take the most brunt force load is the front most (ie braking at 60mph forward vs 10mph in reverse). So i just think the flat bushing belongs at the rear because well all it needs to do is sit against the washer/ jam nut and frame (which to my knowledge doesnt have a raised lip on the rear subframe side)

I just dont see how they could center properly without what is basically a flanged pilot bushing not being at the front most of that assembly. The rod would also be the strongest thing inbetween that and the frame bracket no? if something wants to move past and cause a slip. it should also happen at the end most of the rod where i would have very little centering.

Ive never had an issue like this on any of my cars, and 99% of the front end is brand spanking new. i would again point to the moogs and their orientation. that set did not explode, but still made the same pop on braking intermittently. That is the only tangible thing to support my theory.

I have also had 2 shop owners tell me im either losing my mind and the pop isnt there or that i should just toss the polyurethane bushings and find natural rubber. which i have, but i would dare them to install those in the same orientation they did the moogs/ polyurethane from bill

edit: another thing if my assumption about the frame bracket is correct. the flanged bushing, sitting inside the flanged raised lip on the frame bracket would basically be securing what in my mind is a pilot bushing for the end of the strut rod. Flange inside flange, but if there is also a lip on the inner frame side, im dead wrong

 

[LukesCougar]

while watching my own videos, i thought the strut rod looked to be shaking when slowed down, but relative to other things its a blur for me

 

[LukesCougar]

Me and a buddy are gonna knock out the strut rods, because if i am wrong id rather not pay shop time. Just gonna lubricate them good and put the flanged bushing up front. if nothing changes oh well


It still just bugs me though.. this mechanic swears up and down that everything is tight and the poly is just too firm. i dont agree with this, but we atleast agree where the pop is happening

 

[LukesCougar]

i believe i have found the source of the turning pop, but im not sure if it is related to the pop when forward braking or not because pop when braking forward happens when the strut rod bushings get wet, not when the uca gets wet, but looking back at one of my videos it appears the uca is binding at the spindle and releasing.

Is this an easy fix? retorque them? or is the joint trash

Also, if both pops are related to the uca, why does the poly become so unhappy when it gets wet? there is a liberal amount of anti seize on them

my uca would explain the intermittent binding, but it doesnt tell me why every time i hit the brakes in the rain i get a clunk unless its a combo of the strut rods and uca becoming unhappy

 

[LukesCougar]

 

[LukesCougar]

Well i took a video of the front srbs.. i think this may of been a case of tunnel vision. i already had so many issues with them, but all i can tell is that the front bushings walk just a little bit, but they are not the source of the pop and ill assume i either dont have them tight enough or normal movement.

The uca is almost certainly the cause of my pop, both forward and turning, but i think the poly just groans a little more when its raining and i could of been mixing the two up. I did try to isolate by spraying the strut rods but maybe instead of the strut rods binding in the rain they could actually just move a bit more allowing the uca pop to show itself? i really dont know, but i have actually found something.

 

[Grog6]

If the joint is popping, it's bad, and trying to come out. Replace that asap. It's not as bad as the lower one popping, but it's bad. The lower wastes the fender.

 

[LukesCougar]

If the joint is popping, it's bad, and trying to come out. Replace that asap. It's not as bad as the lower one popping, but it's bad. The lower wastes the fender.

I slowed the video down, it looks like my whole upper control arm is shifting when the joint is wanting to twist, but im not sure if that is because the joint is binding, or the mounts are loose. I'm gonna replace both ucas anyways with some of the mevotech supreme or scp control arms, but i almost wonder if the first shop just didn't torque things properly and its loose

 

[Grog6]

You need an 18mm ratcheting wrench, and you can easily tighten those.

 

[LukesCougar]

You need an 18mm ratcheting wrench, and you can easily tighten those.

Alright. If the control arm is moving how will i know its seating properly? should i loosen before re tightening? and give it a good wiggle?

 

[XR7-4.6]

why does the poly become so unhappy when it gets wet? there is a liberal amount of anti seize on them

Antisieze on the bushings? Apart from the bushing grease sold by Prothane/Energy suspension a good alternative grease for poly is dielectric grease, but definitely not antisieze!

 

[LukesCougar]

Antisieze on the bushings? Apart from the bushing grease sold by Prothane/Energy suspension a good alternative grease for poly is dielectric grease, but definitely not antisieze!

This is what bill himself recommends? if they fail i will take heed of his 3 year warrenty

 

[LukesCougar]

Antisieze on the bushings? Apart from the bushing grease sold by Prothane/Energy suspension a good alternative grease for poly is dielectric grease, but definitely not antisieze!

 

[LukesCougar]

Update, tightened control arm, pop is gone -_- 1 year of mechanics telling me everything is tight

ive backed in and out of my drive atleast 12 times. i cannot replicate it anymore

 

[XR7-4.6]

This is what bill himself recommends? if they fail i will take heed of his 3 year warrenty

Far be it for me to question Bill, but antisieze is petrol based, greases meant for poly are silicone based, which dilectric grease is as well. Antisieze may well work as a suitable lubricant but it seems like it’ll degrade the bushings over time. Plus for the liberal amount you should apply to keep poly from squeaking you must have looked like the tin man like I do just opening my bottle of antisieze

 

[LukesCougar]

Far be it for me to question Bill, but antisieze is petrol based, greases meant for poly are silicone based, which dilectric grease is as well. Antisieze may well work as a suitable lubricant but it seems like it’ll degrade the bushings over time. Plus for the liberal amount you should apply to keep poly from squeaking you must have looked like the tin man like I do just opening my bottle of antisieze

I understand, wasnt insinuating you were wrong i just wondered why bill would recommend it lol.

I used a silicone based grease myself messing with them (the pink stuff in videos) but the shop that installed them used copper anti seize

 

[LukesCougar]

for everyone thats been here for the journey i do apologize for my tunnel vision. just wish these mechanics knew better than me. You would think if i threw money at someone that went to school for the stuff they would try to look for my issues instead of gaslighting me, but here we are with a bit of relief

I assume i should be looking for new upper control arms considering one was slamming against the frame and binding for a year. I will also mention the anti seize issue with new mech. see if he will lubricate them good with something proper for poly, and check for other loose stuff just incase

I do thank everyone that has chimed in though, this thread still helped a lot in figuring out what went wrong with the last shop, and choice of parts

 

[Grog6]

Having learned polyurethane chemistry to make apcp rocket motors, I can say for sure that antisieze will degrade poly, and cause metal-ion embrittlement; btdt. We made a system at work that the poly disintegrated on, in less than a year.

 

[KevinVarnes]

For what it is worth, I've watched the upper control arm video several times and I cannot see the pop, but I'm glad you finally got it figured out. Nothing better than finally solving an issue that has persisted for so long. Sometimes finding and diagnosing pops/creaks/squeaks can be very difficult especially when you cannot recreate the noise when the car is standing still.

 

[LukesCougar]

For what it is worth, I've watched the upper control arm video several times and I cannot see the pop, but I'm glad you finally got it figured out. Nothing better than finally solving an issue that has persisted for so long. Sometimes finding and diagnosing pops/creaks/squeaks can be very difficult especially when you cannot recreate the noise when the car is standing still.

If you slow it down right around when the car returns to center the whole arm was shifting back a little pit. I think the only reason mechanics didnt notice was because it only happened intermittently, and i doubt they would beable to recreate it in a flat lot or on the rack

 

[LukesCougar]

watch the ball joint area relative to surrounding things

 

[Grog6]

I made it out to the garage today, and found the box of front strut rod bushings. I used one side 15 years ago, but I have a complete, oem set from ford. Pix to follow, my phone's dead.
The big diff I see is: the two rubber bushings are identical, except one is bonded to a steel cup about 1/4" deep.
There's two of the washers, and two new nuts.
I guess they're TTY, lol.

 

[KevinVarnes]

I made it out to the garage today, and found the box of front strut rod bushings. I used one side 15 years ago, but I have a complete, oem set from ford. Pix to follow, my phone's dead.
The big diff I see is: the two rubber bushings are identical, except one is bonded to a steel cup about 1/4" deep.
There's two of the washers, and two new nuts.
I guess they're TTY, lol.

I think the nuts are nylocks, so in theory one time use.

 

[LukesCougar]

I think the nuts are nylocks, so in theory one time use.

That actually makes me worry. I wouldnt be suprised if the first shop impacted them on, and ive had the front most fastener off a couple times.

They always get tight though. i am still worried about the lca side that is stripped, which was an original suspect but its also tight and not going anywhere. for now

 

[KevinVarnes]

I would be willing to bet that almost everybody reuses the nuts since they are not widely available and they don't come with any bushing kits. I'm sure you could get new nylock nuts if you wanted, but we would have to figure out the thread size.

 

[Grog6]

They are nylocs, 16.22mm id, coarse threads,I'm guessing 17mm . These are beefy; I bet they'd raise ac
knot on someones head, lol.
If I reuse a nylok, I use locktite red.
It would be 16mm, cause there is no 17.
Bolt Depot has nylocks.

There a pic of the correct ones on partsgeek, but out of stock, lol.
I had to replace one that got covered with atf.

 

[LukesCougar]

They are nylocs, 16.22mm id, coarse threads,I'm guessing 17mm . These are beefy; I bet they'd raise ac
knot on someones head, lol.
If I reuse a nylok, I use locktite red.

17mm? the front most fastener on my strut rods is a 31mm, not sure about jam nuts

edit: ah you mean the threads themselves