Are my airbags actually installed?

GRWeldon

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I'm wondering if there is an easy way to tell if my passenger airbag is installed? The bird I'm working on is giving the 5 beeps and flashing code 51. I don't have history on this car so I don't know for sure if the bags are even in it.

The cover over the passenger bag is a slightly different shade of tan and I'm suspicious.

While I'm talking about it, how is the passenger bag removed? I'm guessing you don't just rip off the cover. Maybe you do. I don't know...
 
As always,
  • Follow at your own risk
  • Disconnect battery
  • Wait
  • Wait some more
  • Others may know how long exactly
  • Use protective gloves and eyewear
  • Proceed to removal

Removal:
  • Lower glovebox to floor
  • Remove air ducts (two pieces); three bolts plus one screw holding the two pieces to each other
  • Remove airbag bolts (four)
  • Gradually push airbag backwards until connector is accessible
  • Disconnect connector
  • Remove airbag
 
If you have the cover, you have an airbag. The cover is not removable separately, at least not without a lot of work, and when the airbag blows, it tears the cover in half, and also damages the dashboard around the airbag. So I’m confident you have an airbag. However the airbag could have been replaced and not plugged in, or it could be a wiring problem, or a problem with the airbag computer. Often when airbags do deploy, the computer gets fried in the process of triggering the airbags.
 
With that error, op does not have a working system. The blue box needs replaced, and the system tested with airbag simulators.
Just replacing the box could deploy good bags.
 
With that error, op does not have a working system. The blue box needs replaced, and the system tested with airbag simulators.
Just replacing the box could deploy good bags.
I've had this discussion in depth on a previous thread on this forum about DTC 51. Your statement above is the first time I have heard any such thing and you were quite involved on the other thread. I've never even heard of airbag simulators. How are they used and where can you buy them? I've got an SC with the DTC 51 also and really don't know how to troubleshoot it despite detailed instructions...

BTW...no pun intended, but if the airbags could go off by just replacing the module, that would really blow. I obviously do not want this to happen under any circumstances...
 
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If you have the cover, you have an airbag. The cover is not removable separately...
Thanks. This is what I wanted to know.

If this car has been involved in a front end collision previously, there are zero signs of it. Thus car even has the little rubber-like front air dam that is missing in most of my other Birds and Cats...
 
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. I've never even heard of airbag simulators...

Apparently a device plugged into the connector in lieu of the airbag to fool the car into thinking the airbag is there, thereby isolating the code to the system other than the airbag itself, if such code reappears.

Just replacing the box could deploy good bags.

How? Why?

If this cas has been involved in a front end collision previously, there are zero signs of it.

In my junkyard runs, the MN12s with blown bags usually had minimal front damage. The system appears to err on the side of ultra sensitive.
 

You hook these up in place of the bags, after you replace the sensors, bags, and blue box. if it passes it's diagnostic, you power down again, and put the bags back in.

The safing sensor is behind the drivers kick panel; stomping your foot after bumping something with the nose blows the bags.
btdt.

 

How? Why?



In my junkyard runs, the MN12s with blown bags usually had minimal front damage. The system appears to err on the side of ultra sensitive.
If the sensors are triggered, plugging in a new box, with new bags will trigger the bags. My tbird has new bags, a new box and sensors, but lacking the simulators, the bags aren't plugged in.
 
I replaced my airbag module (blue box) a few years ago without any problems. I did unhook the battery the night before though. :ohyes:

Joe
 
If they're going to go, it would happen just after hooking up the battery.
After deploying, the box kills itself by activating a resistor bonded to the thermal fuse. I took my box apart after it was dead.
It's designed to fire a detonator cap. charges to about 400v.
 
I had read 2.2 some1here, but as it's reading a blasting cap, 1 ohm is probably correct.
Caps are supposed to handle 1A at 1v indefinitely.(1W)
 
If have power on Pin 13 incoming but not Pin 15 (W/O) outgoing the fuse is bad
 
I replaced my airbag module (blue box) a few years ago without any problems. I did unhook the battery the night before though. :ohyes:

Joe
Did you go through any type of troubleshooting to find and correct a short before you replaced the box? I have read several accounts of folks reporting bad battery posts/connections that killed the blue box.
 
If the sensors are triggered, plugging in a new box, with new bags will trigger the bags. My tbird has new bags, a new box and sensors, but lacking the simulators, the bags aren't plugged in.
So you still get the code 51 error and the bell/buzzer?
 
I replaced my airbag module (blue box) a few years ago without any problems. I did unhook the battery the night before though. :ohyes:

Joe
Where did you find a replacement module? I've bought 2 used ones from ebay, but the first one had the blown thermal fuse. Seller originally said he would refund because I opened the module to look, but later relented. The 2nd one was shown already open in the ad.
 
I bought a set of bags and sensors and box from a jy. It's illegal to ship bags.
The sensor I looked at was a steel ball stuck to a magnet.And a circuitboard. It wasn't one of ours.
 
Next time I get a chance, I may take some of these apart and take some pictures.

Too bad, I was at the yard today, and they have a Thunderbird with blown airbags. I didn't think about it then.
 
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but am curious: I read somewhere years ago the air bags have a life span, I want to say 20 years. Is there any merit to that? Any concerns that our air bags are so old?
 
For ours, no, but for newer airbags, yes. Airbags use a chemical reaction to create the nitrogen gas to inflate them. Older airbags like our cars, and pretty much everything prior to early 00s used Sodium Azide which was stable, however when deployed it would also create a hot toxic gas. If you were ever in a 90s car that had airbags deploy, you know the smell. The toxicity isn’t enough to really do damage, but combined with the heat, which has been known to cause pretty severe burns, was less than ideal, but not any more dangerous as it aged. In the late 90s, Takata patented a new process, which used Ammonium Nitrate. These airbags didn’t produce toxic gases, or high enough temperatures to burn people, and were also cheaper to produce than the old sodium azide ones, so pretty much all the manufacturers started using Takata’s airbags. However over time, especially if exposed to moisture, Ammonium Nitrate becomes more volatile. This was the source of the whole Takata lawsuit. Their airbags over time were degrading, and in such a way that the chemical reaction became much more powerful than intended, and the rest of the unit was unable to contain the explosion, so metal pieces would fly at people’s faces at 400mph. Takata’s fix for this, starting in 2008, was to put a desiccant in the airbag to absorb the moisture, which satisfied NHTSA, however desiccants can only absorb so much moisture, and eventually every airbag Takata made will become a bomb. After the Takata lawsuit, manufacturers stopped using Ammonium Nitrate, and started using Guanidine Nitrate, which also breaks down over time with exposure to moisture, however it becomes less volatile, not more. So in 20 years, a new car’s airbags may not function, however at least they won’t be a bomb going off in your face. So in short, cars made in the 90s, the airbags might burn you, and they will smell horrible, but no lasting harm. Cars made after 2017 will eventually have ineffective airbags, but not for another 20-30 years. However cars made with Takata’s upgraded airbags which were used from 2008 to 2016, will all eventually become bombs, and there is no exhaustive list of cars that have these airbags, so you would have to check yourself. If you do find you have a Takata airbag that is more than 10 years old, my suggestion would be to disable those airbags unless a Guanidine Nitrate replacement can be found.
 
If you do find you have a Takata airbag that is more than 10 years old, my suggestion would be to disable those airbags unless a Guanidine Nitrate replacement can be found.

That will be a hard sell to family members. Is there a good way to determine what a car is using? Cursory look suggests info will just say where and how many air bags
 
Did you go through any type of troubleshooting to find and correct a short before you replaced the box? I have read several accounts of folks reporting bad battery posts/connections that killed the blue box.
No, I just replaced the box after the code appeared and haven't had any issues since.

Where did you find a replacement module? I've bought 2 used ones from ebay, but the first one had the blown thermal fuse. Seller originally said he would refund because I opened the module to look, but later relented. The 2nd one was shown already open in the ad.
I found a new one on eBay, lucky I guess. I need to check to see how long ago I replaced it.

Found the thread over at TSTSNBN and I replaced it back in September, 2018.

Joe
 
One of the idiots I worked with was on the team at tokata that came up with the formula with ammonium nitrate. Its problem is that it soaks up water over time; water expands 1600x its volume as it turns to steam. combined with the explosive, it breaks the housing , becomig a claymore in your face. Our airbags are better.
 
1600 is 32 to 212 degrees; a burning explosive is much hotter, so the rules of thumb are not right either. The partial pressure of water at 1000+ degrees is huge.
 

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