Ford News: Can Ford keep up with changing market conditions?

[Trunk Monkey]

Signs are not good. The have the resources, not the will or the skill.

 

[Generalee0527]

Last I checked the customer was the boss. What have customer's asked for? I am curious though how will government function when people don't need to work due to robots and ai? Who will pay the taxes? Reality doesn't care about anyone. Ford should do what is needed without whimpering. Competition makes us better. Farley should lead like the GT 40 or move over.

 

[Fireofficer5]

This asshole sounds like he will be the last ceo of ford, meaning no more ford.

All manufacturing in china is highly subsidised and controlled by the communist party.

Jackass.

 

[Irv]

I started to watch the video and the interview with Farley at the beginning discusses the abundance of technology in Chinese EVs. How the hell is that a good thing? How about discussing the build quality of the actual cars instead of the crap that gets installed in them? People want cars, not a Minority Report gesture control panel and subscription service on wheels.

As long as SAE level 5 automation is a fantasy, people who care about cars don't want more technology in them. Contrary to what dumbass influencers become infamous for on TikTok, I think most people are still focused on the road and not getting killed rather than livestreaming themselves in a rollover.

There are many other angles I could take on the subject, but a large part of it boils down to companies (certainly in America and Europe, most definitely South Korea, and I don't know about China) focused on extracting maximum profits from their customers for short-term gain rather than innovation and sustainability.

 

[theterminator93]

I hate to say this having been a Ford guy in a Ford family for over 30 years... but we gave up on them a few years ago (not long after we got our Fusion and experienced their current definition of "customer care") and decided our next car would most likely not be from one of the domestic "big 3". Our general opinion is that Ford no longer cares about their customers - just their customers' money. Not to say that this wasn't always the case, but it's gotten so much worse (IMO) and perhaps obvious lately.

 

[KevinVarnes]

That video sounds like an AI Chinese propaganda film. Sorry, couldn't watch more than about 20 seconds.

No kiddin' China can make cheap crap really quickly. The problem is we've given them so much technology so we could have an "in" to their market. Politicians and business people have been working under the delusion for the past 50+ years that if we give them stuff and are nice to them they will want to be our friends. They don't want to be our friends. They'd love nothing more than for America to implode on itself. The only thing that we have working for us is Communism typically stifles creativity and advances in technology, but that isn't going to do us much good when they control the world.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I started to watch the video and the interview with Farley at the beginning discusses the abundance of technology in Chinese EVs. How the hell is that a good thing? How about discussing the build quality of the actual cars instead of the crap that gets installed in them? People want cars, not a Minority Report gesture control panel and subscription service on wheels.

As long as SAE level 5 automation is a fantasy, people who care about cars don't want more technology in them. Contrary to what dumbass influencers become infamous for on TikTok, I think most people are still focused on the road and not getting killed rather than livestreaming themselves in a rollover.

There are many other angles I could take on the subject, but a large part of it boils down to companies (certainly in America and Europe, most definitely South Korea, and I don't know about China) focused on extracting maximum profits from their customers for short-term gain rather than innovation and sustainability.

Exactly this, they’re trying to pull the wool over the customer’s eyes with flashy tech to mask the poorly engineered mechanicals, ever poorer build quality, recall queens in the lineup. Oh and charge more than they ever have for them.

 

[bowez]

"Quality is Job 1." not anymore. My SC is more reliable than our 2016 Expedition and is cheaper to fix too. Cam phasers and timing set now....

 

[Vicinity]

I can't tell if its an echo chamber effect for my algorithm, but generally most youtube videos about cars admonish most of the QAQC and decisions being made in the last 10 years. I wonder if that will tip the scales back in our favor eventually. Hopefully something like the 80s interiors realizing they aren't there to cosplay as the future. I'm starting to respect Mazda for the next few years, it seems they have been reluctant to pace up to fads

Making cars disposable reminds of the military industrial complex, grows bigger on its own self and can't be stopped.

 

[Irv]

I'm starting to respect Mazda for the next few years, it seems they have been reluctant to pace up to fads

Nah, they're just slow to join the shitty bandwagon.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I just heard about the Fairfield Ford plant shutdown in Glendale, KY. 1,600 out of work until at least 2027, if they ever get a job at the new factory.

That's 20 to 21 percent of that town's population of about 9,500 out of work on top of the 4.5% already unemployed.

 

[Vicinity]

Nah, they're just slow to join the shitty bandwagon.

Holy shit, nevermind! Hopefully its a C-series thing. The MX5 looks ok

 

[Irv]

Holy shit, nevermind! Hopefully its a C-series thing. The MX5 looks ok

So far, it's just the CX-5. Time will tell when the other models come due for a refresh.

 

[theterminator93]

Only thing about new cars that I'm looking forward to is seeing if the EU's new regulations that require some actual BUTTONS on the dash instead of these 343-menu-deep touchscreens to unlock the doors and roll down the windows make their way to the lineups over here.

TL;DR: Only thing I'm looking forward to about new cars is the possibility of them looking more like old cars.

 

[Irv]

Shame about all that data collection they'll still perform on you that gets sold to third-party data brokers who resell that data to insurance companies.

New cars are overly complicated trash and I have a feeling that as some of them age out further, the bottom is really going to fall out on their reliability due to the unnecessary complexity. And if you disagree with that, you must like performing a bunch of additional tedious steps to release your electronic parking brake when replacing your rear brake pads. Or you can just tack that dealership service visit to your mountain of debt that includes your 96-month car loan. Whatever works.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Shame about all that data collection they'll still perform on you that gets sold to third-party data brokers who resell that data to insurance companies.

New cars are overly complicated trash and I have a feeling that as some of them age out further, the bottom is really going to fall out on their reliability due to the unnecessary complexity. And if you disagree with that, you must like performing a bunch of additional tedious steps to release your electronic parking brake when replacing your rear brake pads. Or you can just tack that dealership service visit to your mountain of debt that includes your 96-month car loan. Whatever works.

They're designed to fail. It's not a fault, it's a feature. It's designed obsolescence to drive new vehicle sales. OTOH, for those who can't afford to keep up with a 96 month loan that will last longer than the vehicle itself it's going to drive people to the ride sharing services of Uber, Lyft, etc. and the robo taxis of Waymo, Tesla, etc. Either way, it's going to be interesting to watch. I'm thankful to have our paid-for older vehicles still up and running. Prevenative maintenance is key!

 

[MadMikeyL]

20 years ago, when people would ask what kind of car to buy, I would usually tell them that other than a few lemons, anything they bought would last a long time if they take care of it. Today, it is the exact opposite. Everything is shit! Everything is going to fail and leave you stranded and cost you tons of money. Everything!

I’ve been sending people towards Mazdas lately because they refuse to install garbage CVTs, and I only really see them in the shop for basic maintenance, but we’ll see how long that lasts. Ford has lost it with all their ecoboost crap. Just had to do a cylinder head on a Focus a couple months ago that only had 80k on it, and I’m in the middle of a 16 hour water pump job on a Lincoln with a 3.7 in it, cause it is driven by the timing chain and you have to tear half the engine apart to change a damn water pump! Also just over 80k on that.

I can’t tell you how many 3.5 ecoboost motors I’ve had to dig carbon off the backs of the valves due to misfiring. GM is no better. For all the hate it gets, the LS was about as perfect an engine as you could want. Good power, reliability, decent fuel mileage, and will run for 500k miles. Now GM suddenly forgot how to build a V8, and they have brand new trucks shooting rods out the side of the block. Chrysler’s flagship 3.6 has lifter failures, oil pump failures, head gasket failures, oil cooler failures, and after you fix all that, the 62TE trans shuts the bed. Nissan’s transmissions were so bad for so long they decided to build a Rube Goldberg engine that would be guaranteed to explode before their horrible transmissions. Even Honda and Toyota jumped on the CVT bandwagon. Subaru eats head gaskets so bad they decided to call head gasket replacement “recommended maintenance” at 100k! Hyundai and Kia wipe out the electroplated cylinder linings, resulting in loss of compression, oil burning, misfiring, and an engine block that is impossible to rebuild.

Everything European is a god damn electrical nightmare with everything controlled by a module that needs to be programmed by the dealer. It is really like everybody simultaneously forgot how to build a reliable vehicle! I was never one to shy away from technology, but I’m starting to understand the appeal of points and a carburetor, which is something I never thought I would say!

 

[XR7-4.6]

They're designed to fail. It's not a fault, it's a feature. It's designed obsolescence to drive new vehicle sales. OTOH, for those who can't afford to keep up with a 96 month loan that will last longer than the vehicle itself it's going to drive people to the ride sharing services of Uber, Lyft, etc. and the robo taxis of Waymo, Tesla, etc. Either way, it's going to be interesting to watch. I'm thankful to have our paid-for older vehicles still up and running. Prevenative maintenance is key!

Basically the you’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy dystopia our corporate overlords want.

Biggest issue for people like us is attrition. It’s not like planned obsolescence is a new thing, old cars rust, parts supply for wear items dwindles (or quality of essential replacement parts plummets), and state inspections will force them off the road if they don’t meet their bureaucratic standards. Or there’s an accident or natural disaster that takes them out. That’s the scary part, there used to be cars I had on my shortlist of “backups” but over the years they’ve either mostly disappeared (most MN12s unfortunately) or have gotten too expensive in recent years becoming collector fodder. There’s a few newer regular cars I could see replacing my Focus with I think I can trust, but they do not have a blue oval, and I even see that supply dwindling.

The most insidious part about modern planned obsolescence isn’t so much the fact that it’s there but the way it’s implemented. In many ways cars are better than they ever have been(as they should be with progress), styling is subjective and of course and we as enthusiasts mourn the near demise of things we love like manual transmissions, V8s etc, but there is good engineering out there, even corrosion protection is lightyears ahead of where it was in the 90s. The planned obsolescence seems to be less in the sorts of wear and tear that’s inevitable and simply accelerated by a few cost cutting measures during production, but deliberately baked in failure points like Ford’s wet belt oil pumps or the networked electronics that can sometimes literally brick the car if there’s a fault that in any other time in the automobile’s previous 100 years of existence could be ignored or repaired without any sort of proprietary scanner and licensed software.

 

[KevinVarnes]

20 years ago, when people would ask what kind of car to buy, I would usually tell them that other than a few lemons, anything they bought would last a long time if they take care of it. Today, it is the exact opposite. Everything is shit! Everything is going to fail and leave you stranded and cost you tons of money. Everything!

I’ve been sending people towards Mazdas lately because they refuse to install garbage CVTs, and I only really see them in the shop for basic maintenance, but we’ll see how long that lasts. Ford has lost it with all their ecoboost crap. Just had to do a cylinder head on a Focus a couple months ago that only had 80k on it, and I’m in the middle of a 16 hour water pump job on a Lincoln with a 3.7 in it, cause it is driven by the timing chain and you have to tear half the engine apart to change a damn water pump! Also just over 80k on that.

I can’t tell you how many 3.5 ecoboost motors I’ve had to dig carbon off the backs of the valves due to misfiring. GM is no better. For all the hate it gets, the LS was about as perfect an engine as you could want. Good power, reliability, decent fuel mileage, and will run for 500k miles. Now GM suddenly forgot how to build a V8, and they have brand new trucks shooting rods out the side of the block. Chrysler’s flagship 3.6 has lifter failures, oil pump failures, head gasket failures, oil cooler failures, and after you fix all that, the 62TE trans shuts the bed. Nissan’s transmissions were so bad for so long they decided to build a Rube Goldberg engine that would be guaranteed to explode before their horrible transmissions. Even Honda and Toyota jumped on the CVT bandwagon. Subaru eats head gaskets so bad they decided to call head gasket replacement “recommended maintenance” at 100k! Hyundai and Kia wipe out the electroplated cylinder linings, resulting in loss of compression, oil burning, misfiring, and an engine block that is impossible to rebuild.

Everything European is a god damn electrical nightmare with everything controlled by a module that needs to be programmed by the dealer. It is really like everybody simultaneously forgot how to build a reliable vehicle! I was never one to shy away from technology, but I’m starting to understand the appeal of points and a carburetor, which is something I never thought I would say!

Amen to all of that. Gotta love the updated Subaru 2.5 with timing chains instead of a belt. They took a relatively robust and easy to work on engine that all they really need to do was upgrade the head gasket. Well they did that, and turned the rest of the engine into a gigantic oil leaking sieve waiting to happen. Had to reseal a 2019 about a month ago. I spent more time scraping form in place gasket off of engine parts than physically pulling and reinstalling the engine.

I actually don't mind Ford 3.5/3.7 timing chain and water pump jobs anymore. After the first one I swore I'd never do another, but I can live with it now. Parts start getting real expensive if you are doing phasers as well though.

 

[Kenz]

I hate to say this having been a Ford guy in a Ford family for over 30 years... but we gave up on them a few years ago (not long after we got our Fusion and experienced their current definition of "customer care") and decided our next car would most likely not be from one of the domestic "big 3".

Same here... My family has mostly gone to Toyota. Tomorrow my wife and I are trading our '16 Navigator in and picking up our new vehicle we ordered (it is an American brand not really mentioned in this thread). Our Navigator has been an alright vehicle and we like it, but it's plagued by electrical gremlins that no shop or myself could fix.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I was never one to shy away from technology, but I’m starting to understand the appeal of points and a carburetor, which is something I never thought I would say!

15 years ago when I’d see people put carbed windsors in MN12s I’d scoff, now when I look at @SC_Shi ‘s build I feel envy and regret

I think Mazda has been holding on because they’ve largely been coasting on the engineering and technology they’ve had for a decade, which was kind of the company’s peak.

 

[Green T]

I have never, nor will I ever, own a foreign car. IMO they are lightweight beer cans.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I have never, nor will I ever, own a foreign car. IMO they are lightweight beer cans.

Define foreign car?

Origin of brand? Origin of design and engineering? Origin of assembly? Origin of parts suppliers?

In this century it’s essentially impossible to check all four for #USA. Also nothing is lightweight these days, virtually everything on the market has packed on the pounds compared to the era MN12s were new.