Front and Rear Springs and Shocks Recommendations

[KevinVarnes]

No, not the usual discussion about what front struts we can modify to fit our cars. I'll save that for another thread. The springs and shocks on the '97 are bone stock original as far as I know and while the handling isn't terrible, they do have a ton of miles on them. Fortunately for them, they lived their first 22 years out West where I assume all of the roads are as smooth as glass (at least compared to the roads here).

Doing some research it seems that no one has anything bad to say about the SCP QA1 front coilovers. In fact everyone seems to love them. I know there are concerns about no bellows which I plan to address.

Parameters for the car are it can't ride like a covered wagon. My wife drives this most of the time and we live in Michigan so I do not want to overlook ride/comfort. That said, it would be nice to lower it a touch (maybe 1") and I wouldn't be averse to some improvement in handling. A firm, but not bone rattling ride would be acceptable.

So, my thoughts were SCP QA1 front coilovers with either 400# or 450# springs (open to suggestions here). That at least seems to be a good starting point. When I first saw them I thought they were ridiculously expensive, but if their performance is good and the shocks themselves can actually be replaced and/or rebuilt then that is a positive in my book.

For the rear I was going to go with the Vogtland 1" springs. These seem to be the only real option anyway so why not. Yes, I know I need to purchase the complete set and that is okay with me. Now, rear shocks. There are the usual Monroe/Gabriel/KYB which don't really excite me. Then there are the obligatory Cobra IRS rear shocks. I'm good with spending money on quality parts, but let's be real. I don't a set of $1k rear shock absorbers. I believe the Bilstein B6 (heavy duty) shocks would probably be the most compliant of what is available (yes I know Koni adjustables and QA1 adju$$tables are also available).

The only thing that I'm not sure of on the Bilsteins is gunn's post from October:

If you want a daily, DONT go with the bilstein setup (Cobra rear shocks, DIY Mitsu 300GT inserts). IMO, its WAAY too rough for the street

I am assuming he was referring to the B8 (sport) Bilsteins here, but I'm not sure.

I don't really want to go to the QA1 rear coilovers for reasons that have been discussed here and elsewhere previously (single shear lower bolt, putting all the weight of the car onto what was previously just a shock mount, etc.)

So, opinions? I'd love to hear from those with experience. I know several here have used one or the other.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Honestly the cobra rear shocks seem egregious to me, I’ve had tokico blues back there for ages and for a long time had eventual plans to “upgrade” to to bilstiens because it was so well touted, but why? 5/8 the weight is on the nose of these, and I don’t feel any handling or ride issues coming from the BACK.

 

[Irv]

I have the Bilstein HD (B6) all around, including the fronts Bilstein manufactured for the MN12. I guess what would be helpful is knowing what constitutes too rough for the street. I'm not a great judge of that for others when I also got the same suspension setup in my Lexus. If I could respond today to a former coworker from many jobs ago who said back when I bought the Lexus that it must ride like a dream, I'd say, "Sure, if your dreams are filled with adrenaline."

The problem with me offering any suggestions is that I've had the Bilsteins on the Thunderbird since 2002, the fronts are custom valved for increased compression and rebound, and I haven't rode in anyone else's stock suspension MN12 since then. I don't remember the first three years of running stock shocks anymore. In addition, I also have all UHMW bushings in the rear subframe and control arms. My solution is to simply not drive on shitty roads, but I'm guessing that isn't a realistic option in Michigan.

Since Bilstein does offer custom valving, I would imagine you could get them to customize the Cobra rears to be more compliant.

 

[KevinVarnes]

Honestly the cobra rear shocks seem egregious to me, I’ve had tokico blues back there for ages and for a long time had eventual plans to “upgrade” to to bilstiens because it was so well touted, but why? 5/8 the weight is on the nose of these, and I don’t feel any handling or ride issues coming from the BACK.

I thought my only other option besides the Cobra shocks are Thunderbird Monroe level quality. Are you talking about the D-Spec Tokico's? I guess at that price point they would be competing with the adjustable Koni's which still seem to be somewhat available. At least MM has them.

I have the Bilstein HD (B6) all around, including the fronts Bilstein manufactured for the MN12. I guess what would be helpful is knowing what constitutes too rough for the street. I'm not a great judge of that for others when I also got the same suspension setup in my Lexus. If I could respond today to a former coworker from many jobs ago who said back when I bought the Lexus that it must ride like a dream, I'd say, "Sure, if your dreams are filled with adrenaline."

The problem with me offering any suggestions is that I've had the Bilsteins on the Thunderbird since 2002, the fronts are custom valved for increased compression and rebound, and I haven't rode in anyone else's stock suspension MN12 since then. I don't remember the first three years of running stock shocks anymore. In addition, I also have all UHMW bushings in the rear subframe and control arms. My solution is to simply not drive on shitty roads, but I'm guessing that isn't a realistic option in Michigan.

Since Bilstein does offer custom valving, I would imagine you could get them to customize the Cobra rears to be more compliant.

I get that. Just like how loud or quiet your exhaust is. I agree it is difficult to quantify. I have Bilsteins all around on my Crown Vic and I thought they were actually too soft. Not sure what version they are, but I am assuming similar to the Heavy Duty or B6.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I thought my only other option besides the Cobra shocks are Thunderbird Monroe level quality. Are you talking about the D-Spec Tokico's? I guess at that price point they would be competing with the adjustable Koni's which still seem to be somewhat available. At least MM has them.


I get that. Just like how loud or quiet your exhaust is. I agree it is difficult to quantify. I have Bilsteins all around on my Crown Vic and I thought they were actually too soft. Not sure what version they are, but I am assuming similar to the Heavy Duty or B6.

Tokico Blues, which haven’t been made in quite a few years. They’re basically the equivalent of factory Sport shocks

 

[KevinVarnes]

Ah right. So I might as well roll the dice with the B6 shocks and see how they feel,

Anyone have any input on the front spring rate on the QA1 coilovers? It looks like the factory Sport springs were a progressive 350-400#. It looks like Afco has a 375# spring that would work with the SCP coilovers.

 

[Chris_Murder]

Ah right. So I might as well roll the dice with the B6 shocks and see how they feel,

Anyone have any input on the front spring rate on the QA1 coilovers? It looks like the factory Sport springs were a progressive 350-400#. It looks like Afco has a 375# spring that would work with the SCP coilovers.

I seem to remember them working out better with 550# springs.

 

[KevinVarnes]

Dredging this back up. Getting ready to pull the trigger on suspension and brake parts for the T-Bird. Going with the SCP front coilovers. Still cannot decide on a front spring rate. I was going to go with the 375 lb/in springs to mimic the stock SC springs as closely as possible, but I hear many people saying those are too light which makes no sense to me. The shock mounts and acts on the exact same points as a stock shock, so it isn't like we are changing the motion ratio so the wheel rate should be exactly the same (okay within reason because factory springs are variable rate, but you get the idea) as stock SC springs/shocks. What I am trying to avoid is putting 450 lb/in springs on it, having it ride like a covered wagon, and having to spend another $200 on some lighter springs. Keep in mind, this is a daily driver (by my wife) in Michigan.

 

[AdamG]

I've got 500# on mine and it rides great, roads here in Ohio are about like they are up in Michigan. Mine is a 5.0 (dart 363) so it is a little heavy. I'd go at least with 400s if not 450s.

 

[Grog6]

The stock v8 springs are a nice step back from the sc springs. 33gg are the listing. Here are the stock numbers:

Definitions:

Progressive Springs: Also know as rising-rate springs or variable springs are like two springs in one. The first small amount of suspension travel gets the softer rate, which helps filter out potholes, bumps, expansion joints, and ruff road surfaces. After the first inch of compression the spring rat

1989	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	N/A
1990	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	N/A
1991	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1992	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1993	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1994	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1995	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1996	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	N/A	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.
1997	Front: 223-282 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in.	N/A	Front: 270-330 lb./in. Rear: 361-501 lb./in. LX Sport Option: Front: 349-403 lb./in. Rear: 509-637 lb./in.

 

[Ericv8thunderbird]

I’ll have to do some digging to see what spring rates I used, I want to say I did 450 front and 250 rear.

 

[KevinVarnes]

Eric, I think you said in a previous PM that you were running 450# springs. Man those just seem heavy, but between you, Adam above, and everything else I've seen, I guess I'll give them a shot and see how it goes. Appreciate the feedback from everyone!!

I'm just going with the front coilovers for now. Rears are going to be 1" drop Vogtlands with some fancy pants QA1 adjustable shocks.

Also FWIW, I know a lot of people have some apprehension about the single shear rear coilover lower mount (including me), but I did see that Maximum Motorsports also has a rear coilover for the IRS Mustangs that uses the exact same type of lower mounting point.