97 Tbird 4.6 V8 ac clutch throwing sparks, smoking, and rattling

LukesCougar

LukesCougar

2nd Gear Poster
Joined
Dec 27, 2023
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100
Location
Olney Illinois
Vehicle Details
1997 Thunderbird LX 4.6 Limited edtion - 1996 Cougar Xr7 4.6
Country flag
I went to refill my ac because the compressor clutch wouldnt kick on. Once it had some fluid in it.. it really tried to. Now i have a rattle in my engine bay and the clutch is burnt up. Is the clutch itself worth replacing or should i take it to a nearby shop and have them throw a whole new compressor and lines in?
 
Try and turn the compressor via the clutch plate (not the pulley) and see what happens. It should spin with little resistance; if it's tough to turn by hand it may be a seized/bad compressor.

Mine did something very similar about 16 years ago... the previous owner hotwired the low side cycling switch closed to force the compressor on anytime the HVAC was in a mode that was programmed to use A/C. Then one night coming home, I saw a bunch of sparks flying out from under the car on the freeway at night (in the rain) and found the compressor seized, clutch burnt up, and bearings in the pulley all but gone. I replaced the compressor, (over)flushed the evaporator, condenser and lines, replaced the accumulator, manifold line (97 is unique, so you will need to replace the condenser and lines to use the 96 style) and then charged it up. It's been fine since then. :)
 
Ah yeah i cant turn it with my hand. Do you have any idea what a shop would want? Id wanna bet it has that green stuff inside it now and i dont have a vac/ recycler to drain them myself. Havent really done much of any ac work in the past
 
I can't say what it would cost to have a shop take care of it, but it would probably be $1500-2000 since doing it "by the book" may have them include a new evaporator (which involves removing the dash), new condenser, new lines, new compressor, new accumulator, and the evac/recharge. It'd take a couple days plus parts.

I had no A/C experience at all either when I tackled this job back in 2008/2009. It's not bad, but it does require patience and care.

The main issue is the compressor shredded itself internally and metal shavings now contaminate the system. Gotta get all that crap outta there otherwise it'll just kill the new compressor.

I just bought a flush gun and used a gallon of lacquer thinner and flush solvent to flush the heat exchangers. You're not supposed to flush the condenser but I took a gamble, forward/reverse flushed mine several times until I stopped getting material out of it. Flushing the evaporator was much less challenging and isn't recommended either, but is much more cleanable than the condenser.

With a 97 they changed the condenser line fittings; you can't flush the muffler in the compressor discharge line, so either you need to convert the condenser and lines to the 94-96 style or get the discharge line from a car that had working A/C. In 2009 it was way easier to do that than it is now, so I recommend just swapping to the 96 style parts. Flush the other lines and evaporator, new orifice tube/compressor/accumulator, new O-rings (use Nylog blue if you can get it to seal instead of PAG oil), an evac/recharge and you should be good to go. I'd also suggest getting a vacuum pump/gauge set. It will pay for itself the first time you go to use it considering the cost of having a shop do the work.

This is what the compressor pulley bearings looked like on mine after it cooked itself to death.
IMG_1894.JPG

My orifice tube wasn't super clogged, but it definitely had compressor innards on it.
IMG_1959.JPG

All because of this! :zbash::zbash::zbash:
IMG_1960.JPG
 
In our cars the green stuff is dye. Our cars use a FS10 compressor, which are pretty durable in my opinion. Now 20 years will always take a toll. But I still think they are a good compressor. The compressor Ford used in most cars BEFORE the FS10 was the FX10. The FX10 was responsible for what was known as "Ford black death". Whereby the compressor ate itself alive and spewed all the metal into the AC system generally needing everything replaced. The green dye is not the same thing.

If your clutch is bad. And it sounds like it is with the sparks, scraping and you can't turn it. I'd just purchase a brand new unit. I live in Vegas. I do AC work all the time. I never buy rebuilt compressors unless there is no other option.

On the MN12 replacing the AC parts other than the evaporator really aren't too tough. The issue is always the evacuation, vacuum and charging for most folks.
Sometimes you can get a local shop to evac the system. Then you do repairs and have them vacuum and recharge. Save a few bucks. But obviously you have to look into that.
 
I assume the big piece in the last photo is the drier, how the hell do you get that out? I removed the working system from the red Cougar, but getting that out was a motherfucker, even with the engine out.
 
theterminator93 said:
I can't say what it would cost to have a shop take care of it, but it would probably be $1500-2000 since doing it "by the book" may have them include a new evaporator (which involves removing the dash), new condenser, new lines, new compressor, new accumulator, and the evac/recharge. It'd take a couple days plus parts.

I had no A/C experience at all either when I tackled this job back in 2008/2009. It's not bad, but it does require patience and care.

The main issue is the compressor shredded itself internally and metal shavings now contaminate the system. Gotta get all that crap outta there otherwise it'll just kill the new compressor.

I just bought a flush gun and used a gallon of lacquer thinner and flush solvent to flush the heat exchangers. You're not supposed to flush the condenser but I took a gamble, forward/reverse flushed mine several times until I stopped getting material out of it. Flushing the evaporator was much less challenging and isn't recommended either, but is much more cleanable than the condenser.

With a 97 they changed the condenser line fittings; you can't flush the muffler in the compressor discharge line, so either you need to convert the condenser and lines to the 94-96 style or get the discharge line from a car that had working A/C. In 2009 it was way easier to do that than it is now, so I recommend just swapping to the 96 style parts. Flush the other lines and evaporator, new orifice tube/compressor/accumulator, new O-rings (use Nylog blue if you can get it to seal instead of PAG oil), an evac/recharge and you should be good to go. I'd also suggest getting a vacuum pump/gauge set. It will pay for itself the first time you go to use it considering the cost of having a shop do the work.
Click to expand...

Ill look around at getting myself a vac pump and gauges. I would be curious if oreilly has one i can rent. I did pull the compressor clutch on my 96 thinking i could maybe use it.. and getting an idea of how hard it is to work on the compressor itself with it in the car. The clutch on it was toast too along with the bearing.

How could i verify that the clutch itself is just bad and my compressor hasnt left bits of metal all throughout?
 
Any time I have a compressor grenade on a car I just replace everything under the hood and flush the evaporator. In my opinion, its money well spent to just replace hoses even if they have been replaced recently. You can get a Motorcraft compressor from RockAuto for $240 which is ridiculously cheap. Most of the time you are left picking between all of the aftermarket brands and hoping you get a good one.

As stated, it is relatively easy work as long as you take your time. If you don't know what you are doing then read up until you do. Most factory service manuals have pretty good AC sections.

If you can't turn the compressor shaft by hand, then the compressor is bad. You could also pull the clutch assembly off and really get down to the compressor shaft, but I don't know why you would do that.

I do believe most parts stores do rent vac pumps and gauges nowadays if you don't want to make the investment. Who knows the last time anyone changed the oil in the vac pumps though.
 
KevinVarnes said:
Any time I have a compressor grenade on a car I just replace everything under the hood and flush the evaporator. In my opinion, its money well spent to just replace hoses even if they have been replaced recently. You can get a Motorcraft compressor from RockAuto for $240 which is ridiculously cheap. Most of the time you are left picking between all of the aftermarket brands and hoping you get a good one.

As stated, it is relatively easy work as long as you take your time. If you don't know what you are doing then read up until you do. Most factory service manuals have pretty good AC sections.

If you can't turn the compressor shaft by hand, then the compressor is bad. You could also pull the clutch assembly off and really get down to the compressor shaft, but I don't know why you would do that.

I do believe most parts stores do rent vac pumps and gauges nowadays if you don't want to make the investment. Who knows the last time anyone changed the oil in the vac pumps though.
Click to expand...
The car did come with a factory service manual. Something none of my other cars had so ill do some reading. Also i think as per the usual im hoping i can get away with being mediocre. I do agree i should just flush it and replace all the lines and other needed parts.
 
The only reason to replace the clutch by itself is if it no longer holds when engaged, doesn't engage, or has bad bearings. Avoid the "Four Seizins" compressors - they have a reputation for dying early. :)

Once you disconnect the liquid line from the condenser you can try to pull out the orifice tube and examine it. You'll probably have some crud on it like I did. Any is bad.

Several of us here have done this kind of stuff before, so if you have any questions just chime in.
 
LukesCougar said:
The car did come with a factory service manual. Something none of my other cars had so ill do some reading. Also i think as per the usual im hoping i can get away with being mediocre. I do agree i should just flush it and replace all the lines and other needed parts.
Click to expand...
The difference between mediocre and good on AC is just time and attention to detail. That can save you grief, time, and money later.
 
Can i get away without replacing the condenser if there isn't a lot of material in that filter?
 
The condenser is easy to replace and relatively cheap, just to it. The worst to replace is the evaporator.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
The condenser is easy to replace and relatively cheap, just to it. The worst to replace is the evaporator.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, i just dont have a whole lot of funds atm. I could scrape up a kit like this and then id be broke.

1997 Ford Thunderbird A/C Compressor and Components Kit 4.6L Engine 60-82679 CK

1997 Ford Thunderbird A/C Compressor and Components Kit 4.6L Engine 60-82679 CK A/C Compressor and Components Kit 31 Pounds
www.discountacparts.com


those 2 together were what I was thinking, but they're aftermarket. Plan so far was to vac. then individually flush all the lines that aren't rotted, evaporator, and replace the line above because its rotted. If I could get away with it I wouldn't care for it to last another 20 years. Just not make noise and be annoying.
 
LukesCougar said:
Can i get away without replacing the condenser if there isn't a lot of material in that filter?
Click to expand...

You won't be able to. Even if you flush it, you need to replace the compressor discharge line to the condenser because the muffler in it has lots of baffles that cannot be flushed. It's a 97 only design, and the part has been obsolete for 20 years. You'll need to convert to the 94-96 style lines and condenser.

Think of it this way - you wouldn't want to go through the time, expense and effort to rebuild the AC system and cut corners to only have the replacement compressor die the same death as the old one after a year. :)
 
A delco compressor is 130, drier 15, orifice 10, name brand stuff; I'd worry about a no-name kit. RA shows the condenser is out of stock; I'd consider hitting a JY and snagging parts. If the compressor turns, and system is still charged, odds are good everythings ok. Then you only need a drier, and spray to clean the evap.
 
Grog6 said:
A delco compressor is 130, drier 15, orifice 10, name brand stuff; I'd worry about a no-name kit. RA shows the condenser is out of stock; I'd consider hitting a JY and snagging parts. If the compressor turns, and system is still charged, odds are good everythings ok. Then you only need a drier, and spray to clean the evap.
Click to expand...
Alright ill look around.
 
theterminator93 said:
You won't be able to. Even if you flush it, you need to replace the compressor discharge line to the condenser because the muffler in it has lots of baffles that cannot be flushed. It's a 97 only design, and the part has been obsolete for 20 years. You'll need to convert to the 94-96 style lines and condenser.:)
Click to expand...
First I've heard of this. How difficult is it to convert to the earlier style lines?
 
theterminator93 said:
Looks like it, though it's half that price at RA.

UAC HA111562C A/C Refrigerant Hose / Line | Shop Now at RockAuto

UAC Heat & Air Conditioning Parts and More for Your Vehicle at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.
www.rockauto.com
Click to expand...
I'm now contemplating doing an ac delete. Just temporarily until I get other things sorted. The bearing is trash and eating up my belt. Shifts rough at wot on 1-2, coolant leak back of intake. Needs a bit of suspension work. Probably dropping the 4r70w pan next time im off work and checking 1-2 accumulator. I did get it tuned up and all the power is back/ no misfires so i can rule out rough running causing the harsh shift
 
Went ahead and did the ac delete. Hope to be back on this thread again once other things are sorted out. All the info is really good cause idk what the hell im doing.
 
I'm not particularly knowledgeable in the technical department, but it sounds like the A/C delete is buying you some time to focus on more important things. Seems like a good move.

I grew up with cars without A/C; it wasn't that bad.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I'm not particularly knowledgeable in the technical department, but it sounds like the A/C delete is buying you some time to focus on more important things. Seems like a good move.

I grew up with cars without A/C; it wasn't that bad.
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Yeah most all of my cars have not either. I was exited to have some cold air in this car cause it looked clean at first glance. Oh well. Already have a plan laid out to rebuild everything. Got to save up for a decent vac/ set of gauges. Until then the moon roof and working windows will do just fine
 
Get a new design 1-2 accumulator piston and filter from ra, The original piston will tear up the bore eventually.
If you drop the pan and drain the tc, you'll need 6 qts if mercon V. If the top-looking 'toy' is in the pan,it's never been changed. save that plug, it comes in handy when you eventually get a newer jy trans.
Getting a pan with a drain plug will help next fluid change.
 
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