Better headlights

CDsDontBurn

CDsDontBurn

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97 Thunderbird Sport
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I installed the LED headlights I bought last month, and the light output sucks more than the bulbs I pulled out 🙃.

TBF, the clips on the ring did break, so I'm hoping that once I get replacement rings (ordered replacements, will be in tomorrow), my light output will improve.

If light output doesn't improve, I'll have to look into other options...
 
CDsDontBurn said:
I installed the LED headlights I bought last month, and the light output sucks more than the bulbs I pulled out 🙃.

TBF, the clips on the ring did break, so I'm hoping that once I get replacement rings (ordered replacements, will be in tomorrow), my light output will improve.

If light output doesn't improve, I'll have to look into other options...
Click to expand...

Filament placement can really make or break them as it is crucial to be in the correct spot for the housing which LED bulbs all too often get wrong.

Nevertheless looking to drop in LED bulbs to improve light output is a futile quest, they’re not going to be brighter than the halogens just whiter, and cooler(bluer)light is actually less visible to your eyeballs than the regular old warm toned halogens. If you want the best lighting with the stock housings and drop in bulbs get or make yourself a relay harness to get true battery output to them, get a good set of bulbs without any color filters and make sure they’re aimed properly.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Filament placement can really make or break them as it is crucial to be in the correct spot for the housing which LED bulbs all too often get wrong.

Nevertheless looking to drop in LED bulbs to improve light output is a futile quest, they’re not going to be brighter than the halogens just whiter, and cooler(bluer)light is actually less visible to your eyeballs than the regular old warm toned halogens. If you want the best lighting with the stock housings and drop in bulbs get or make yourself a relay harness to get true battery output to them, get a good set of bulbs without any color filters and make sure they’re aimed properly.
Click to expand...

I will always continue to be an advocate for projectors in 96/97 housings. It cures the beam pattern problem and puts the lumens where it matters. :)

TBF I haven't actually looked to see if you can still get the kind that fits...
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Filament placement can really make or break them as it is crucial to be in the correct spot for the housing which LED bulbs all too often get wrong.

Nevertheless looking to drop in LED bulbs to improve light output is a futile quest, they’re not going to be brighter than the halogens just whiter, and cooler(bluer)light is actually less visible to your eyeballs than the regular old warm toned halogens. If you want the best lighting with the stock housings and drop in bulbs get or make yourself a relay harness to get true battery output to them, get a good set of bulbs without any color filters and make sure they’re aimed properly.
Click to expand...

Light output was absolute hot garbage with the stock halogens. Now with the LEDs in, it's worse, is what I'm saying.

What I'm also saying is that I'm hoping that the retaining rings that broke during today's install just have the bulbs slightly out of position (what you're saying) and is the reason why I'm not getting any better light output vs the stock bulbs I took out.

At this point, I'd be happy if the LEDs give me equal output to the stock bulbs.

Is a projector retrofit really the best solution for great light output in our cars?
 
Are you sure they're aimed properly?

I drive a lot at night on completely dark country roads. Light output with the Silverstar or Silverstar Ultra bulbs is perfectly acceptable.

The only complaint I have is that, with low beams properly aimed, high beams are a bit too high. That's impossible to fix due to the housing design.
 
I think so. I don't like LED "bulbs" in halogen housings because at best, it increases glare at a rate proportional to the increased light output and at worst, puts more light out in glare and less on the road.

Factory halogen on the left, projector HID (at the time it was 6000k, I went to 4300k not long after and it was both brighter and a more visible spectrum) on the right.
1760845214938.png

Remember my picture when I added in fog lights? All 4 turned on:
IMG_2028.JPG


Here's the same view with the HIDs. Same exposure according to EXIF data.
IMG_2458.JPG
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Are you sure they're aimed properly?
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying. I broke the retaining ring for the light bulbs, and I believe that they're not longer properly aligned in the housing and therefore has degraded my light output.


1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I drive a lot at night on completely dark country roads. Light output with the Silverstar or Silverstar Ultra bulbs is perfectly acceptable.
Click to expand...

I knew that light output was already bad from driving at night previously, but a couple weeks ago I was coming back home from my friend's house and I was the ONLY car in the twisty canyon road and I couldn't see jack shit with the halogens. Which prompted me to get better lights hoping that the LEDs would be better.
 
theterminator93 said:
I think so. I don't like LED "bulbs" in halogen housings because at best, it increases glare at a rate proportional to the increased light output and at worst, puts more light out in glare and less on the road.

Factory halogen on the left, projector HID (at the time it was 6000k, I went to 4300k not long after and it was both brighter and a more visible spectrum) on the right.
View attachment 15086

Remember my picture when I added in fog lights? All 4 turned on:
View attachment 15088


Here's the same view with the HIDs. Same exposure.
View attachment 15087
Click to expand...

These are the kind of results I'm looking for!

What, besides putting in the HIDs, did you do?
 
The projectors are key to Brandon’s setup, any other approach with simply using brighter light sources in the stock housings will scatter excess light rather than focus it where it actually benefits you

CDsDontBurn said:
That's what I'm saying. I broke the retaining ring for the light bulbs, and I believe that they're not longer properly aligned in the housing and therefore has degraded my light output.
Click to expand...

What he’s referring to is the aim of the housings themselves, the bulb in housing aim is crucially important but really the ring is really more important for retention, the O ring on the bulb will hold it in place to the housing all by itself.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
What he’s referring to is the aim of the housings themselves,
Click to expand...

Correct.

And when I said perfectly acceptable light output, I meant within the context of what can be expected from a static halogen reflector. I personally added my "supplemental high beams" as previously discussed here. I drive at night with relative confidence.

But if you've ever driven a modern car with curve adaptive lights through a canyon, any static setup is lousy.
 
Drop-in LED bulbs are a crapshoot these days, which is an improvement over them being complete garbage like 10 years ago, but still no guarantee of improved light output for the driver.

A lot of LED bulbs these days claim to perfectly replicate the beam pattern of halogens, but there's a lot of precision measuring and testing required for that to be true, and a pair of LED bulbs selling for $50 is a clear "you get what you pay for" scenario. If the bulbs can't be indexed, they're not even worth considering. Then there's how forward/backward the LED chips are on the PCB, which can't be adjusted.

I'd take it a step further and say if I were in the drop-in LED market, anything with a cat-on-keyboard brand name or claiming five-digit lumen counts on American Temu (Amazon) is a complete non-starter.

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about any of that, but if you've seen my shared album in the Facebook group or simply noticed my avatar here, you'd already know I wasn't messing around. HID projector retrofit or GTFO. :ROFLMAO:

IMG_2075 (Large).JPG

IMG_2076 (Large).JPG
 
I have a spare set of headlight housings that is had intended for Dirty Bird which I'm willing to experiment with before going over to my clean Gold Bird housings.

That said, would these (or similar) projectors work for retrofitting?

Amazon.com: Nilight - 10041P 2.5" Mini Projector Lens for H1 Bulb Headlights Retrofit, Custom Headlamps Conversion:Chrome Shround,2 Years Warranty : Automotive

Buy Nilight - 10041P 2.5" Mini Projector Lens for H1 Bulb Headlights Retrofit, Custom Headlamps Conversion:Chrome Shround,2 Years Warranty: Headlight Assemblies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
a.co
 
Possibly; at that price I wouldn't have any qualms if they ended up not working out for some reason. On the plus side, the plastic shroud that goes over the lens housing looks like it could be trimmed to make clearance if it ends up being slightly too big. I like the fact that it uses a standard bulb. The projectors I got use some weird proprietary base lamp; fortunately I have a spare set of bulbs and the OG pair that came with them is still working fine after 15 years.

I'd pop open the spare housings you have first. Sometimes the hardest part of getting the projectors in is getting the housings apart. :)
 
What tools do I need to pop open and trim the housings? I know I bake the housings at 250F, but for how long?
 
CDsDontBurn said:
What tools do I need to pop open and trim the housings? I know I bake the housings at 250F, but for how long?
Click to expand...

My housings, which are factory, just came apart by hand plus some very gentle prying. There are four clips to remove first.

I took them apart to remove the chrome ball look which is a bit goofy in my opinion.

20251019_115736.jpg
 
Can anyone post a recommended projector they've personally used and been happy with? Because I have the exact same problem as the OP: stock felt so dim as to be suicidal at night, but LEDs have mostly just changed the colour, not improving the issue enough to make me satisfied. I've got a 97 Bird.
 
Another question, not that it matters much as I'm finding, does the orientation of the LED "blade" matter? Currently, I have mine vertical position. What if I were to orient it in a horizontal position?

1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
My housings, which are factory, just came apart by hand plus some very gentle prying. There are four clips to remove first.

I took them apart to remove the chrome ball look which is a bit goofy in my opinion.

View attachment 15096
Click to expand...

There wasn't a deal or epoxy or anything on the lens?
 
CDsDontBurn said:
Another question, not that it matters much as I'm finding, does the orientation of the LED "blade" matter? Currently, I have mine vertical position. What if I were to orient it in a horizontal position?
Click to expand...

It must be vertical. The two "filaments" must be one above the other.

CDsDontBurn said:
There wasn't a deal or epoxy or anything on the lens?
Click to expand...

There was a small amount of sealant, but it had lost its adhesive properties. It still seals though. I just put them back together, put the clips back on, and never had any moisture ingestion.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
I have a spare set of headlight housings that is had intended for Dirty Bird which I'm willing to experiment with before going over to my clean Gold Bird housings.

That said, would these (or similar) projectors work for retrofitting?

Amazon.com: Nilight - 10041P 2.5" Mini Projector Lens for H1 Bulb Headlights Retrofit, Custom Headlamps Conversion:Chrome Shround,2 Years Warranty : Automotive

Buy Nilight - 10041P 2.5" Mini Projector Lens for H1 Bulb Headlights Retrofit, Custom Headlamps Conversion:Chrome Shround,2 Years Warranty: Headlight Assemblies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
a.co
Click to expand...
Those can work. Reading the reviews, the biggest issue with them is that its threads are flimsy and some people say they're missing hardware, but they will do a fine job on a budget. Since those are just the projectors, you're also going to need ballasts and bulbs.

You also asked about bake times. To be on the safe side, keep the temps low, maybe even closer to 200°F. 5-7 minutes. All you're looking to do is soften the sealant so it's pliable for you to pull it apart. You don't want to risk damaging anything with too much heat.

If you can't do a retrofit right now, high-end halogen bulbs like the Philips X-tremeVision 9007 are a better bet than random drop-in LEDs. You can get the X-tremeVision 9007 for $16. I might have listed the Sylvania SilverStar Ultra here as well if they didn't cost triple the price. Both bulbs have a reputation for burning out within a year though.
 
Stanley said:
Can anyone post a recommended projector they've personally used and been happy with? Because I have the exact same problem as the OP: stock felt so dim as to be suicidal at night, but LEDs have mostly just changed the colour, not improving the issue enough to make me satisfied. I've got a 97 Bird.
Click to expand...
Morimoto Mini H1. The current model is the 8.0. I have the 7.0. It's the finest H1-sized projector on the market.
 
Irv said:
Morimoto Mini H1. The current model is the 8.0. I have the 7.0. It's the finest H1-sized projector on the market.
Click to expand...

The bulbs used are HIDs? Looks like it, but want to confirm.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
Experience with HIDs means the ballasts are required. I'd have to buy those on top of the HID bulbs as well, right?
Click to expand...

Yes. The ballasts determine how much power is being fed to the bulbs. Ballasts are typically 35W or 55W. The 55W ballasts create more light, but at the cost of more heat and shorter longevity for all components. Using the same bulbs, the color temperature will warm up and decrease by 500-1000K with 55W ballasts compared to 35W.

blog.headlightrevolution.com

35w or 55w, Which is Brighter? Color Shift and Lux Explained - My WordPress

35w or 55w, Which is Brighter? Color Shift and Lux Explained Pop quiz: which HID color is brighter, 4,000K, 6,000K, or 10,000K? If you do not know the answer, keep reading. Today, I will go over how an HID gets its color and what changes when you go from a 35-watt ballast to a 55-watt […]
blog.headlightrevolution.com blog.headlightrevolution.com

The tradeoff generally isn't worth it in my opinion. When your baseline is the OEM crap, 35W is more than enough without needing to worry if you're going to melt anything. The light output may be up to 50% brighter with 55W, but how much of it is beneficial is another matter. You'll still have a low beam cutoff which means anything above it won't be illuminated regardless, so is 35W not enough to illuminate everything under the cutoff? Unlikely.
 
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Thank you @Irv for the detailed responses!

As I begin my adventure into this, is there any scenario where I could keep the LEDs I just purchased? Or all retrofits, regardless of brand, make, or model, going to need HID specific?

I'm seeing various things on the matter and I can't seem to find a clear answer on this. But from what I gather, it seems that I will be needing HIDs for a projector retrofit. Is this correct?

And if I do need an HID retrofit, is the bulb itself really that important anymore (aside from color)? I'd like to think "no", because it'd the ballasts that determine the connection.
 
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