Daytime Running Lights Color

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Which DRL color do you prefer?

Note: This thread is not intended to discuss the pros & cons of DRLs in general.


Current Situation

• outboard lights (corners) - amber:
  • bright: turn signals
  • dim: parking lights and sidemarkers
• inboard lights (next to grille) - white:
  • bright: DRLs
  • dim: parking lights

DRLs are wired through a relay:

• on with ignition on
• off with low beams on

What I'm Considering Instead

• outboard lights (corners) - amber:
  • bright: turn signal
  • dim: parking lights and sidemarkers
• inboard lights (next to grille) - amber:
  • bright: DRLs and turn signals
  • dim: parking lights

I drafted a relay circuit which would work as follows:

• Ignition off: hazards work as normal, 4 total in the front
• Ignition on: 4 bright amber DRLs
• Turn signals in use: the 2 DRLs on the respective side flash off (alternating with rear turn signal); the 2 DRLs on the respective other side stay lit
• Low beams in use: turn signals work normally, 2 per side

Some Background Info

I like Sylvania Zevos (and already have an extra pair of amber ones), so I don't want to use any kind of switchback LEDs.

I really like the added inboard turn signal functionality because I think the outboard turn signal isn't as visible when you're at a slight angle toward oncoming traffic.

The main question is: how do we feel about amber DRLs? They're somewhat common, though not nearly as common as white ones. Is too much amber a distraction from actual turn signals?

 

[XR7-4.6]

Amber for sure, I love the cats eye effect 80s-90s Fords had with the amber inboard/outboard parking light arrangement, its so distinctive and sinister, I drive around with them on like that all the time. White just looks like you accidently bought the wrong bulbs. I think amber makes more sense as a DRL, it's far more visible. It actually seemed like it was more the norm until Audi came out with the LED accent DRLs about 10 years ago with every automaker copying it, but now that the faddishness has passed you're seeing amber making a comeback since it is scientifically proven to be more visible.

As far as being a distraction, new cars, both amber or white light, seem to cut the the DRL entirely on the side where the turn signals are on, so there's no confusion.

I didn't have good luck with the amber ZEVOs, they're not nearly as bright as the red or white ones. I ended up swapping my amber ZEVO bulbs out for incandescent silverstars, the parking lights were barely visible in daylight

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

amber making a comeback

That's true. I just read an article about the Kia Telluride going back to amber DRLs after one model year of white.

As far as being a distraction, new cars, both amber or white light, seem to cut the the DRL entirely on the side where the turn signals are on, so there's no confusion.

Well, yes, but you still have the DRL on the other side. One could argue that for turn signals to be most effective, they should be the only thing that's amber.

I didn't have good luck with the amber ZEVOs, they're not nearly as bright as the red or white ones. I ended up swapping my amber ZEVO bulbs out for incandescent silverstars, the parking lights were barely visible in daylight

That is true: the amber Zevos aren't perfect in terms of brightness, but I still like them enough overall.

The parking lights don't need to be visible in daylight because I would use the turn signal portion of the LEDs for DRLs.

Hold on. I'll post my proposed circuit.

 

[Derphound01]

Option C is my vote and also what I run: Hella Yellow.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Hella Yellow.

For DRLs? Or Low beams? Or fogs?

 

[Derphound01]

I run them in DRL and fog positions. 4300k (or as close to it as possible) for headlights.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

@XR7-4.6
What do you think about this?

Sorry, I'm no expert in writing circuits, but I hope it's clear.

Note: my DRLs are currently powered directly from an ignition on circuit which otherwise feeds all sorts of secondary equipment, such as washer fluid level sensor, coolant level sensor, auto-dimming mirror, etc.
The load from LEDs is so low that I felt comfortable simply adding them to this existing circuit.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

I run them in DRL and fog positions. 4300k (or as close to it as possible) for headlights.

Well, fog isn't an option for '97 bumpers. For low beams I'm actually happy with the standard halogens.

 

[Torque]

When I needed new corners, I purchased Euro style clearies, which were also much cheaper, but I never changed the amber incandescents. And there are OEM ambers in my new OEM headlight assemblies, of course.

I'm probably going to change to LEDs for the clear corners, because of the egg yolk effect during the day from the sun shining through the amber incandescents.

I believe in some jurisdictions amber turn signals in front are required by law. Other jurisdictions don't care, as long as it blinks.

Maybe I should use red LEDs in front to match the rears. Nah, ppl would think I'm braking in reverse or some other weird shit is going on. Imagine the look on their face if they saw red lights coming up fast in their rear view mirror.

There are almost certainly laws prohibiting that anyway.

I never used parking lamps as DRL. Old habits die hard, so my vote for DRL color is none/off.

 

[XR7-4.6]

That is true: the amber Zevos aren't perfect in terms of brightness, but I still like them enough overall.

The parking lights don't need to be visible in daylight because I would use the turn signal portion of the LEDs for DRLs.

Hold on. I'll post my proposed circuit.

I love the red ZEVO taillight LEDs, those are bright and visible in bright sunlight with a distinctively brighter brake light (way better than the stock clear incandescents), but that's just it with the amber ones. I use the parking lights as a sort of DRL and even on bright days they're clearly on, and the turn signals have a distinct extra brightness over that. The ZEVOs seem to only be about as bright as incandescent in the blink circuit so wiring it in the fashion you plan is really just taking away the parking lights for a dimmer turn signal.

I'm not saying you should go back to incandescents like I did, just that the amber ZEVOs in particular suck, and there may be better options.

@XR7-4.6
What do you think about this?

Sorry, I'm no expert in writing circuits, but I hope it's clear.

Note: my DRLs are currently powered directly from an ignition on circuit which otherwise feeds all sorts of secondary equipment, such as washer fluid level sensor, coolant level sensor, auto-dimming mirror, etc.
The load from LEDs is so low that I felt comfortable simply adding them to this existing circuit.

View attachment 1734

It seems like you traded incandescent bulbs that pull a load and eventually fail or relays that will do the same lol


The two issues I see is in that diagram is IGN should be energizing the top relays (getting power from the middle relays), but if the top relays are in the energized position the turn signal feeds won't be able to get through

Here, I illustrated the issue showing the path of voltage on the left side of the circuit. The middle one is the correction of the closed relays, but it doesn't work for the third diagram when the turn signals power comes through, it energizes the middle relay and dead ends the top relay

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

@XR7-4.6
Not sure if it's clear, but the turn signals would have two different operating modes. I'll try to explain relative to the rear turn signals:

• With ignition on/low beams off: front turn signals alternate with rear turn signal, because the turn signals feed actually works by flashing the DRL bulbs off, not on.
• With ignition off or ignition on/low beams (edit) on: front turn signals flash simultaneously with rear turn signals.

I'll look at the diagrams again and try to understand your concern.

Meanwhile, I didn't consider relays failing at all...

And I don't disagree about amber Zevos being dimmer than I'd like. But I'm ok with them.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

 

[XR7-4.6]

Ok I see, I was looking at it like the turn signal input would cut the "DRL" ignition power entirely and run the lamps off the turn signal input too, that seems to work fine for how you described

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Ok I see, I was looking at it like the turn signal input would cut the "DRL" ignition power entirely and run the lamps off the turn signal input too, that seems to work fine for how you described

Do you see any simpler way (i.e., less relays) to accomplish the same thing?

On cars with factory combined turn signals and DRLs, the circuit would switch over to the turn signal feed while turn signals are in use.
I cannot do that because I don't have a constant signal during turn signal use other than the cornering light feed, which is only hot with low beams on.

I realize my design is a bit of relay craziness. But I think I'd like the result.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Do you see any simpler way (i.e., less relays) to accomplish the same thing?

On cars with factory combined turn signals and DRLs, the circuit would switch over to the turn signal feed while turn signals are in use.
I cannot do that because I don't have a constant signal during turn signal use other than the cornering light feed, which is only hot with low beams on.

I realize my design is a bit of relay craziness. But I think I'd like the result.

I'm no circuit designer! You'd probably end up with 5 MORE relays for the same result lol

The only thing I'd really change would be the source, why use the low beams as the input? That would mean the DRLs would come back on when you switch to parking lamps or high beam. You should be able to tap into the parking light circuit to trigger the first relay for the same DRL effect with the light witch in the off position but in all other positions work normally.

You can get a pair of these in lieu of tieing into the cornering light circuits. This was how Ford did it before the MFS era, the relay takes the pulsing turn signal and the coil holds steady between pulses. I know there's a circuit that can be made that accomplishes the same but this system is self contained

Ford Mercury Lincoln 1977-89 OEM Motorcraft Cornering Relay D74B-15A217-AA | eBay

HD Cornering Relay 12 Volt 3 Prong. Motorcraft D74B-15A217-AA (Sylvania).

www.ebay.com

See? You got me adding relays

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

The only thing I'd really change would be the source, why use the low beams as the input? That would mean the DRLs would come back on when you switch to parking lamps or high beam. You should be able to tap into the parking light circuit to trigger the first relay for the same DRL effect with the light witch in the off position but in all other positions work normally.

Actually this is intentional. I like that I can run DRLs with parking lights; it's useful during rain for example. The DRLs satisfy NY's wipers on/lights on law.

But the whole idea is on hold for now. I'm not getting the brightness I like for DRLs out of amber Zevos, and I'm not interested in trying other bulbs right now. So I decided to stick to my current setup (until I change my mind again).

You can get a pair of these in lieu of tieing into the cornering light circuits. This was how Ford did it before the MFS era, the relay takes the pulsing turn signal and the coil holds steady between pulses. I know there's a circuit that can be made that accomplishes the same but this system is self contained

OMG, such a thing exists? I had no idea. How does it maintain voltage in-between flashes? Some kind of capacitor? Do the cornering lamps stay on for a few seconds after turn signal use has ended? That would make a lot of sense. With the multifunction switch, cornering lights extinguish too early actually.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Actually this is intentional. I like that I can run DRLs with parking lights; it's useful during rain for example. The DRLs satisfy NY's wipers on/lights on law.

But the whole idea is on hold for now. I'm not getting the brightness I like for DRLs out of amber Zevos, and I'm not interested in trying other bulbs right now. So I decided to stick to my current setup (until I change my mind again).

For me I just pop on the main headlights in the rain(actually autolamp usually does, if the skies are dark enough). I just don't really like the idea of the ambers being at full blast in high beam mode, the whole idea behind them is to reduce foreground light. Obviously they're not nearly as bright as low beams but they're probably not far off from factory fog lights in output, which cut off in high beam mode.

That's where I'm at with amber Zevos, I'd prefer to have LEDs everywhere but I really need to see side by side comparisons between multiple LEDs to make a decision and that can get pricey real quick!

OMG, such a thing exists? I had no idea. How does it maintain voltage in-between flashes? Some kind of capacitor? Do the cornering lamps stay on for a few seconds after turn signal use has ended? That would make a lot of sense. With the multifunction switch, cornering lights extinguish too early actually.

Yep, there's a time delay component where they'll go off a second later, you can actually observe this effect in 70s-80s cars with cornering lights. I'm not sure exactly how the relay works but it doesn't seem to be a capacitor, in the diagram and description there's a heat element before the coil within the relay

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

I was reading the applicable regulations today, and this seemed funny:

Federal Register :: Request Access

So amber is the same as yellow. Then why not just pick one term?

Supposedly, that would affect too many publications, years worth of overlapping use of yellow and amber. Still, it's odd.

It's especially interesting for DRLs because that "Table I." referenced above lists yellow (along with white, white to yellow, or selective yellow) for DRLs while listing amber for turn signals, etc.

For those who don't remember this thread, quick summary: I had the idea of wiring combined DRLs and turn signals. When driving with DRLs, an active turn signal would flash the DRL off. It would work in principle, but what bothers me about it is that front and rear turn signals would then not be in sync. For anyone seeing my car from the side, that would look pretty odd I think.

I'm considering another idea for amber DRLs: simply replacing the current white bulbs with amber ones. That would mean my inboard lights would shine amber solid while my outboard lights would flash as turn signals. Opinions about that? Would it be confusing for onlookers?

 

[XR7-4.6]

These laws are a little convoluted but amber by the US definition seems to equate to Yellow(ish), where in many European countries turn signals are a very distinct darker orange color. You can see this in action on the lense color on old Mercedes models sold globally;

I'm considering another idea for amber DRLs: simply replacing the current white bulbs with amber ones. That would mean my inboard lights would shine amber solid while my outboard lights would flash as turn signals. Opinions about that? Would it be confusing for onlookers?

So… stock?

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

So… stock?

No. Current status is as follows for inboard lights:

• White Zevo 3157 LEDs with distinct LED elements for bright and dim
• Three wire sockets
• Bright circuit run from ignition on, interrupted through relay by low beam on
• Dim circuit run from parking light circuit (stock)

This makes for a very bright DRL which is also my concern; occasionally it seems almost too bright even during the day. It also comes back on when using high beams which isn't a particular concern, but it's a bit odd. In complete darkness, think country road, it's actually very helpful because it illuminates the area directly in front of the car bright white while simultaneously using high beams.


My suggestion was switching to amber bulbs. This would include swapping the relay trigger from low beam on to parking lights on.

So during daytime, there would be two bright amber DRLs inboard and on solid, even when the outboard turn signals are being used.

And as I write this...it just doesn't make sense.


The current setup really is ideal. I just like amber lights, and I have a pair of amber bulbs which I don't have any other use for...
I'd also like to have dual turn signals on each side.

Another idea I thought about: use those inboard lights for parking/turn signals, and move DRLs (white) to new assemblies down in the lower grille. I was actually seeing if Mercury Sable grille lights could fit down there:





Should I worry about cooling though? I mean installing lights there would effectively reduce the usable surface area of the lower grille opening.

 

[Ericv8thunderbird]

No. Current status is as follows for inboard lights:

• White Zevo 3157 LEDs with distinct LED elements for bright and dim
• Three wire sockets
• Bright circuit run from ignition on, interrupted through relay by low beam on
• Dim circuit run from parking light circuit (stock)

This makes for a very bright DRL which is also my concern; occasionally it seems almost too bright even during the day. It also comes back on when using high beams which isn't a particular concern, but it's a bit odd. In complete darkness, think country road, it's actually very helpful because it illuminates the area directly in front of the car bright white while simultaneously using high beams.


My suggestion was switching to amber bulbs. This would include swapping the relay trigger from low beam on to parking lights on.

So during daytime, there would be two bright amber DRLs inboard and on solid, even when the outboard turn signals are being used.

And as I write this...it just doesn't make sense.


The current setup really is ideal. I just like amber lights, and I have a pair of amber bulbs which I don't have any other use for...
I'd also like to have dual turn signals on each side.

Another idea I thought about: use those inboard lights for parking/turn signals, and move DRLs (white) to new assemblies down in the lower grille. I was actually seeing if Mercury Sable grille lights could fit down there:

View attachment 5643

View attachment 5644

Should I worry about cooling though? I mean installing lights there would effectively reduce the usable surface area of the lower grille opening.

I can take a measurement of the lights if you need, my DD is a Mercury Sable.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

@Ericv8thunderbird
Thank you very much. But don't trouble yourself; it can wait until there is one in my local yards. I do remember they come out with a single screw from the front, so it should be easy to play around with them.

 

[XR7-4.6]

As DRLs they’ll be pretty useless for their intended purpose mounted that low, that’s why they’re either headlight level or part of the headlights. Otherwise cars could just use fog lights mounted down low as DRLs

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Yeah...
I think I'll just keep my current setup. Need to find another project.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

As DRLs they’ll be pretty useless for their intended purpose mounted that low, that’s why they’re either headlight level or part of the headlights. Otherwise cars could just use fog lights mounted down low as DRLs

Ok...just been looking at this more closely, in fact a lot of cars have DRLs on the lower bumper. Impala, MKZ, Camry... IIt's fairly common, and they absolutely serve their purpose.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I meant it looks stupid lol

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Ahhh. That's different then.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

I think I got it!

Please take a look at this and tell me if I'm missing anything. This is based on my understanding of the Ford cornering light relay (grey circle); however, I have not tested that yet. The way I understand it is that:

• it has three pins plus ground through its housing
• the turn signal triggers it
• when triggered, it provides continuity between the remaining two pins with a delay long enough to bridge between turn signal flashes

This schematic is about the bright elements of the Zevo LEDs only. The dim elements serve as parking lamps using the stock wiring.

Result is (should be):

• Four amber dim parking lights
• Two inboard amber bright DRLs
• Four amber bright turn signals/hazard flashers with ignition on
  Note: With ignition off, there are only two outboard amber bright hazard flashers.

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Never mind!

I just saw a mistake myself: the two lines from each grey relay to 86 pins above should not be connected. As it is, both DRLs cut off during signal operation, not just the one on that side.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Here's a factory diagram to cross reference, its for the 88 Tbird/Cougars but they used the relays like the Town car too