New PRP tuner!

[theterminator93]

TP relative. 140 is 14%. 1000 is 100%. 0 is 0%.

 

[Chingon1]

Ohh that makes sense, last night I was just going through all the parameters ad it kinda seems like it don’t give you the min and max for anything in the trans settings, such as trans pressure.

Like I said, super newb but steady learning.

I have this tune from when I bought the program from lasato, it’s for my stock engine with the vortech I’m trying to install soon. Only thing is I might get a slot style maf to replace the SCT BA2400 mag I currently have. Supposedly I read it’s way better to tune and drive with.

 

[Chingon1]

Question guys, how do I upload the tune I messed with on the advantage to the hand held?? I saved it as trans tuning on the software but when I try to use the device updater app to upload it, it doesn’t let me load it because it says it an invalid fie

 

[Chingon1]

This is how I am doing it. Why do people use the device updater?

 

[XR7-4.6]

Device updater is for uploading a emailed tunes to your handheld or updating the firmware on it. Other than the latter it’s redundant if you have PRP

I use the tools tab in the toolbar then go to program and then select your tuner option. I always got error screens trying the program device button, which I just assumed was because I’m still using an ancient Xcal II but you can program all devices from the tools pulldown as well, give it a try

 

[Chingon1]

Thank you @XR7-4.6 ! Not gonna lie it took me 3 tries to finally figure out where the actual trans schedule was haha. It’s in the shift/lock schedule godamn. So I messed around yesterday and slightly drove it today. I’m totally digging the extra speed it catches in 1st before hitting 2nd. Before it wanted to shift around 10mph to second which left me super low in the RPM which sucks. Now it shifts at about 16mph not much but it does help out. I’ll be changing it based on how I’m feeling it.

As far as the downshift, is it the 2-1 or 3-2 settings that allow me to make it shift into a lower gear based on TP? Such as if I’m in 3rd gear it would take a lot of throttle position to command the 3-2 shift, say about more than 50% throttle.

if possible can I see some of your guys shift schedule?? To see were I am compared to your guys. Thanks!

 

[theterminator93]

Also factor in lockup. The factory tunes never lock 2nd. Locking up at WOT will provide better acceleration (less energy from the engine lost as heat due to the unlocked converter). I lock my converter at PT in 2nd as well because I have such a high stall converter and I like the street manners better that way.

 

[Chingon1]

I’m assuming this is the stock trans lockup of the LJC1 tune? I see you didn’t mess with the 2-3 3-4 lock up points they look exactly like mine. I DID just do my 1-2 how you have yours.

If so that 2 gear lockup isn’t happening, I still don’t fully understand the unlock lines or the downshift points of the shift schedule.

I can’t really understand it, is it saying that at this speed and this throttle position the transmission will command a down shift? Let’s say in 3rd cruising about 40mph at 20TP, as soon as it seen 40TP it will shift down into 2nd?? Hypothetical obviously. On thing I dont like is how much throttle you need to give it to downshift from 3-2 annoying.

 

[theterminator93]

The shift (up or down) or lock/unlock event occurs when the shift line is crossed. This can happen as MPH changes, or TP changes. You need to be mindful of what you're looking at - an upshift, a downshift, a lockup, or an unlock. They function differently.

In the case of an upshift (e.g. 1-2), the shift occurs as you cross from below the line to above the line. This happens naturally as VS increases with TP remaining constant, or if VSS remains constant or TP decreases. If your shifts happen too soon, you increase the VS and/or TP to increase the area under the curve.

In the case of a downshift (e.g. a 2-1) the shift occurs when you cross from above the line to below the line. This happens naturally as VS decreases and TP remains constant, or if TP increases and VS remains constant. If you want it to be easier to trigger a downshift, you increase the VS and/or TP to increase the area under the curve.

I don't typically tune the shift/lockup characteristics with the graphs. I use the charts and adjust from there based on my desires after a drive. If I notice I'm going XX MPH and I wanted it to shift sooner (or later, or downshift, whatever) I make a mental note of that then check the schedule and adjust accordingly at that MPH.

 

[White Lincoln]

Adjusting the behavior of the stock 4R70W is somewhat limited, but you can tweak the converter behavior and adjust the shift/lockup points to your liking. Try to avoid going too crazy with adjusting pressures - there's only so much the tune can do within the confines of the physical characteristics of the hydraulic design of the trans. Some things shouldn't be messed with unless supporting adjustments to the trans have been made.

Is this with a stock 4r70w or with one that has the JMod done to it?

Also, is it worth trying to tune my stock 3.8l or would I need to get a PCM that is programable? Sorry to ask stupid questions, but as Forest said to Jenny "I'm not a smart man..."

 

[theterminator93]

You can go crazy with pressures and such in the tune, but the orifices in the valve body are only so large and capable of flowing a limited amount of fluid. WITH the J-mod, the amount of control you have over the shift behavior is enhanced greatly because of the greater flow rates of the clutch fill and exhaust circuits.

I wouldn't spend the money on getting hardware and services for tuning a stock 3.8 N/A, unless you have plans down the road to do a 4.2, splitport, or other engine swap.

 

[Chingon1]

The shift (up or down) or lock/unlock event occurs when the shift line is crossed. This can happen as MPH changes, or TP changes. You need to be mindful of what you're looking at - an upshift, a downshift, a lockup, or an unlock. They function differently.

In the case of an upshift (e.g. 1-2), the shift occurs as you cross from below the line to above the line. This happens naturally as VS increases with TP remaining constant, or if VSS remains constant or TP decreases. If your shifts happen too soon, you increase the VS and/or TP to increase the area under the curve.

In the case of a downshift (e.g. a 2-1) the shift occurs when you cross from above the line to below the line. This happens naturally as VS decreases and TP remains constant, or if TP increases and VS remains constant. If you want it to be easier to trigger a downshift, you increase the VS and/or TP to increase the area under the curve.

I don't typically tune the shift/lockup characteristics with the graphs. I use the charts and adjust from there based on my desires after a drive. If I notice I'm going XX MPH and I wanted it to shift sooner (or later, or downshift, whatever) I make a mental note of that then check the schedule and adjust accordingly at that MPH

Ahh that clears up a lot. after a week of driving with the trans tune, this bitch feels a lot peppier. Holds the gears just long enough where it doesn’t lug down low anymore. Staying in a lower gear really helps overtaking in traffic.

I have another question, I can’t seem to find the spark tables? Which one is the table that lets me add timing? Or am I confusing it?

I recently downloaded the tune that Lasota sent me for the vortech I’m trying to throw on soon. gonna have to modify it because I’m switching to a slot maf and pretty sure the maf setting will be way off.

 

[theterminator93]

Borderline spark is what the PCM uses predominantly while driving, with base spark (max allowed) referred to at various times. More often than not they just get replicated when tuning because of how often the PCM is bouncing between the two - dial your spark in how you want it and copy the entire table on top of the other. Use the spark_source PID when datalogging to see which table you're using under various driving conditions.

 

[Chingon1]

@theterminator93 that's interesting, I don’t seem to have that tab on my software. It just gives me borderline knock but not borderline spark.

am I in the wrong section? Sorry for all the questions!

 

[XR7-4.6]

Borderline knock=Borderline spark

 

[Chingon1]

ahh thanks for the heads up. didnt know which was which. still havnt messed with thi either due to not being confident enough to dabble in this area.

i know you have your car DOHC swapped, does that make a difference as to what spark you have compared to the stock 2v? what fuel are you running?

 

[XR7-4.6]

Truthfully I’m not that confident to really mess with it, since you really need a dyno session to truly optimize it. I simply I pull up the value files for a Mach 1 DOHC and load the selected cells, and messing with fuel grades if I hear pinging I back off the timing globally a few degrees on the tuner. Yes the spark tables all vary engine to engine, including npi 2V to PI 2V.

The other thing too is to make sure your MAF transfer function is dialed in first. Spark uses load on the y axis so if the load being calculated is skewed from incorrect MAF data spark will be too

I’m running 89 mid grade but I’d like to get it running happy on 87, even mid grade here is .60¢ more a gallon now (93 is over a full dollar, fuck that).

 

[theterminator93]

Matt is spot on. Step 1 is perfecting the MAF transfer function. It not only allows the PCM to compute fuel delivery (using the flow rate data on the injectors, which also needs to be perfect in the tune) but it also determines load (volumetric efficiency) which, as you look at the spark tables, has a huge impact on actual spark. This compounds due to the other items that load influences - EGR, for example, which also adds spark. MAF transfer too low = running lean + too much spark. Add FI and you might find yourself looking for new pistons!

With my PI heads I have 10.38:1 static compression, the cams are a little more aggressive but not terribly so which also helps a little with the dynamic compression. Running this combo on 87 is completely feasible.

I started off by tuning the car for 93, then dialed the spark back until I found the optimal 87 tables and programmed the difference into the spout connector timing adjustment table. When I want to run 93 I pull the spout plug and it advances my timing for me, otherwise I run the car on 87 all the time because it's SO much cheaper. In terms of manners the car likes the 93 more but not enough for me to pay an extra $1-$1.50/gal.

Referring back to the MAF transfer function and my comment about injectors... if you have non-stock MAF and injectors in your combo, I'd recommend that you make sure you swap injectors OR MAF first, then dial in the flow rate data/transfer function BEFORE you swap in the other component. The data for at least one of those must match the reality of what the hardware is doing. If not, when you go to dial in the function for the swapped in component, it will be skewed by whatever factor the other hardware's data was off by.

Put another way, if you had an 80mm MAF and 30# injectors (like me) you could tune the new injector flow model with the stock MAF. Then put the new MAF on, knowing the injector flow rates in the tune match the actual flow rates, to ensure the MAF transfer function that you dial in is accurate. If your injector flow rate was off by 5-10%, you'd be tuning your MAF transfer to be off by the same margin, skewing load calculations, your spark tables, open/closed loop behavior etc. etc.

Lastly (for now) when you get to a point where you have a more aggressive cam, exhaust etc. you should consider revising your fuel delivery timing. In the stock tune, fuel delivery is set up to spray fuel on the back of the intake valve. The theory is it has some time to more effectively atomize by evaporating off the back of the hot valve. When you have a well-tuned exhaust with effective scavenging and a cam with a tight LSA to take advantage of said scavenging, if all your fuel is sitting atop the intake valve when the valve opens, a good chunk of fuel will get sucked out the exhaust. It's better in that case to adjust your fuel delivery to open the injector only after the exhaust valve is closed so that you're not wasting fuel.

 

[Chingon1]

Godamn, I knew the MAF was a big part but I now know that pretty much EVERYTHING depends on it being absolutely correct In order to function correctly. I’m still in the figuring it out faze. When I throw on the vortech I would like it to go pretty smoothly because I need the bird it’s my daily driver. I can bike it to work but would be cool to t drive this bitch there.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Yeah it’s complex isn’t it? NA you can cut corners a little( I dialed my MAF in with a wideband but my injectors are all value files, albeit from factory databases, but still…). When boost comes into the equation things becomes real critical!

 

[Chingon1]

What wide and are you running? I got an AEM waiting to get thrown on also. The correct also came with some ford Motorsport 47lb injectors. Tuning gonna be a bitch but duck paying somebody to do it.

Side note, I’m pretty sure the stock manifolds are ridiculously restrictive, and no way I can afford those KOOKS just yet haha would it make sense to get some junkyard ones and try to port them??

 

[XR7-4.6]

My WB is a zeitronix ZT3(iirc same as @theterminator93 uses). Tuning info is a starting point generally,but it’ll get you in the ballpark. It’s still best recommended you follow Brandon’s advice; eg get the MAF OR injector flow sorted first, don’t take any shortcuts, no matter how tempting.

 

[theterminator93]

Don't waste time porting the stock manifolds. The point of headers is as much about improving flow/reducing restrictions (for which there is no good way to do on the passenger side manifold due to a sharp bend with an obstruction that can't be removed) as it is about scavenging. Porting the stockers might decrease restrictions and help with raw low a few percent, but it does nil for scavenging; the headers will get you all the way on both fronts.

Save up and do it right the first time.

If your plan is to use 47s, install the injectors now and load the value file and dial them in first. You can do limited tuning with the stock narrowbands.

Turn off adaptive fueling in the tune.
Load the value file for the injectors and install them with the tune. Keep everything else stock.
Datalog your STFTs at idle, 1500 RPM and 3000 RPM for 20 seconds each after the car has warmed up fully. Average out the STFT value for each RPM, then average those values.

For example if your STFTs at idle were 1.04, 1500 1.06 and 3000 1.05, the average of those is 1.05. Since the STFT is commanded lambda to reach an actual lambda of 1, that means an average of 5% lean. Therefore, you'd multiply your injector flow table by 1.05 to correct the ~5% lean condition.

Then you can install your new MAF and begin tuning for it. Load the value file, and datalog maf counts and lambda.

As long as you keep your foot out of it (closed loop) you can do some tuning of the MAF transfer without a wideband. As soon as you go open loop (e.g. put yout foot in it), you need a wideband.