The Unofficial "Ask a Stupid Question" Thread

So basically I'd need another set of LX green interior rear seats just to have enough material to work with. Something to keep in mind I guess. Thanks all.
 
Has anyone used wheel adapters to fit a different offset and bolt pattern to their MN12? I have used them in the VW world before with no issues but wanted to ask here about their experiences on our cars.

And before anyone asks, swapping to the Mustang bolt pattern will not solve the problem.
 
I have not on any car. But my initial thought is that the offset on MN12 is already pretty high, i.e., you have little space to work with to fit an adapter  and another high-offset wheel.

Is the wheel in question so gorgeous to justify the effort?
 
I've been reading a few things about transmission fluid changes all over the internet, not specific to any brand or transmission.

One thing that stood out to me were references to a transmission thermostat.
Imagine you're doing a flush from the cooler lines, but the fresh fluid going in is at room temperature. With such thermostat, the fluid wouldn't cycle properly to complete a flush because it isn't at operating temperature.

Apparently, for this purpose, some automatic flush machines preheat the fresh fluid.


My question then: do our transmissions have such a thermostat? Or does our fluid cycle through the cooler regardless of temperature?
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I've been reading a few things about transmission fluid changes all over the internet, not specific to any brand or transmission.

One thing that stood out to me were references to a transmission thermostat.
Imagine you're doing a flush from the cooler lines, but the fresh fluid going in is at room temperature. With such thermostat, the fluid wouldn't cycle properly to complete a flush because it isn't at operating temperature.

Apparently, for this purpose, some automatic flush machines preheat the fresh fluid.


My question then: do our transmissions have such a thermostat? Or does our fluid cycle through the cooler regardless of temperature?
Click to expand...
There is no thermostat in the trans in our cars, or in the cooler lines.
 
I hate the mushy, disconnected feeling of the unlocked converter in 3rd and 4th gear. Plus a miser like me looks at the 20-30% drop in MPG all while it's unlocked.

I tuned the T-bird to lock after the 1-2. I was thinking about getting the database and another XC for the Mark, but never did.
 
theterminator93 said:
Plus a miser like me looks at the 20-30% drop in MPG all while it's unlocked.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm wondering about that. Consider in-town driving at a constant 35 mph on a flat surface. My car can do that:
  • In 3rd with torque converter locked at about 1,450 rpm
  • In 4th with torque converter unlocked at about 1,150 rpm
I would think the 4th/unlocked scenario is more fuel efficient here, no?
 
Probably not. Gas mileage is tricky. You'd need to measure it in real time.
 
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Anyone got any experience with these? Wanting to add a basic heater to the basement garage without installing a new system.
 
Depends lower speed decreases mileage too. As long as you're doing constant speed, higher rpm is more gas, after you get off idle. Low rpm operation is less efficient. Our optimum is around 2200 rpm. At 80mph, I get 24mpg. lol.
 
Has anyone tried to swap in the 3.9L from a retro bird to an MN12?

*I have no wanting to do this, just wondered. I saw one for sale near me and made me wonder.
 
You can't deduce miles vs. gallons using RPM and distance. You need to know fuel consumption. Fuel consumption is not constant with a given RPM. An engine easily can consume more fuel at 1000 RPM than at 1400 RPM. When the converter is locked, you can open the throttle and the engine RPM stays the same, but you are using more fuel. Likewise, you can let off the throttle and use less fuel at the same RPM.

This is volumetric efficiency, or load. If you have a 4.6L engine and have opened the throttle wide enough to let 2.3L of ambient pressure air in for every 2 RPM (each 8 combustion strokes) then you have 50% load. If you have an 8 PSI supercharged engine, the throttle wide open, you would be forcing 6.9L of air into the engine for every full cycle for 150% load.

In order to determine fuel consumption at an RPM, you need to know the AFR, fuel type, volumetric efficiency and number of cylinders or the mass of air entering the engine over a given period of time.

Without getting too detailed, the amount of torque delivered to the rear wheels to keep the car moving at a constant speed with all other environment variables being equal (wind resistance, temperature, grade, rolling resistance etc.) will also be equal. A locked torque converter is about 99% efficient at transferring energy through it, but an unlocked torque converter's efficiency varies based on input torque, K factor, and output shaft RPM.

At 35 MPH, we know that we turn about 1430 RPM in third gear when locked, or 1000 RPM in 4th gear when locked. If you're turning 1150 RPM in 4th gear while unlocked, we can deduce that your converter is only 85% efficient at that RPM and torque level - or it is converting 15% of the input energy into heat, and transferring the remaining 85% of that energy as mechanical energy to spin the transmission.

That 15% loss of efficiency most directly translates to heat loss via friction inside the converter. That right there is a huge portion of the loss of fuel economy.

For the sake of a simplified example, you might see 20% load at 1150 RPM in 4th, unlocked, to keep the car moving. In 3rd, locked, you might have 14% load. Using load as an equalizer, 20% of 1150 is 230 and 14% of 1450 is 203, so you'd be using about 12% more fuel at the lower RPM than the higher RPM.

You can use live data from your PCM to see this happening in realtime.
 
@theterminator93
That's very educational. I appreciate it.

Now, what's interesting is that the transmission logic (stock tune presumably) doesn't seem to know which one it prefers either.

In my example, engine and transmission at normal operating temperature, we're going 35 mph on a flat surface:
  • If we've come to 35 mph by way of accelerating from a lower speed: my car will run in 3rd/locked.
  • If we've come to 35 mph by way of coasting down from a speed above 39 mph (i.e., we were previously in 4th/locked): my car will run in 4th/unlocked.
So the car uses two different strategies, for the exact same speed of 35 mph, depending on the previous speed. Why?

My car never runs 4th/locked at 35 mph. The moment you fall below 39 or so mph, it unlocks.
 
The stock transmission program is geared (no pun intended) mostly towards the least NVH for the driver, not at all for longevity or performance.

There are minor differences in the shifting and lockup schedule between calibrations, but generally speaking the transmission will always shift to a higher (numerical) gear 2-3 MPH higher than it will shift to a lower (numerical) gear. This is to prevent constant shifting between two gears when speed fluctuates slightly in traffic.

The unlocked behavior is interesting. On every FN10 and MN12 that I've driven, the converter will generally always stay locked in 3rd and 4th gear. The main exceptions are if it's in warmup mode, or immediately before/after a shift (for just a couple seconds). In higher speeds in 4th the converter can unlock if TP is high - just a few points shy of being high enough to shift into 3rd - presumably to give additional torque for climbing steep hills at speed without the clunky and time-consuming 3-4 shift happening. At higher TP, that shift is exacerbated.

I can bust out the tuning laptop if you want to see the factory 97 (4.6) shift schedule. LMK.
 
Zep5.0 said:
Has anyone tried to swap in the 3.9L from a retro bird to an MN12?

*I have no wanting to do this, just wondered. I saw one for sale near me and made me wonder.
Click to expand...
Ford did with the DEW98 test mules, they used MN12 Tbirds for powertrain development
 
Brandon, that's not at all the way my cars were driving. Stock, they tended to hunt back and forth, as you have to accellerate or slow down with traffic.I've noticed most of the heat comes in fro the 4-3 shift, so 3-4 4-3 bakes the transmission. More throttle makes it heat more, adding a cooler moderates the heat a lot. Even a fresh rebuild does that, so it's not something wrong. My tunes now lock the tc as soon as possible, and need 75% throttle to downshift.
 
New stupid question. For those cars that get the oil pressure mod, what would the various parts of the "NORM" gauge face equate to in terms of number readings? I remember reading somewhere what they were but can't find it now.
 
You will have to calibrate it, if you want to know that. You can use air pressure to simulate it, if you fill the sender with the appropriate fluid. On the old site, I posted the readings for the sender I bought.
 
Here's one as I sit waiting for the locksmith. Is there any way to set the remote entry on a 1997 Thunderbird so that it can unlock the doors while the car is running? Because to my surprise I discovered that it can't (at least on my car), which is counter to every remote-access vehicle I've ever driven in my life.
 
Is your car running now? I’ve been there with the first Cougar I owned.
 
I had a locksmith come by and break in, and I'm off to get more keys cut. I'm just hoping against hope that there's some way of making it so I don't have to worry about it, in case I don't have spare keys on me but I'd like to warm my car up. It gets cold in these thar hills.
 
rampagingsloth said:
New stupid question. For those cars that get the oil pressure mod, what would the various parts of the "NORM" gauge face equate to in terms of number readings? I remember reading somewhere what they were but can't find it now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree with Grog. We know that temperature gauges have a degree of variance so it's only natural to assume that the same can be said of converted oil pressure gauges.

You could also estimate by probing the voltage off the sensor and referencing the datasheet (if any) of the sensor. There should (may) be a chart that converts voltage to PSI.

If you do find out, please share your findings. Even if gauges aren't all the same, it's a starting point for others who are curious later on. :)
 
Stanley said:
I had a locksmith come by and break in, and I'm off to get more keys cut. I'm just hoping against hope that there's some way of making it so I don't have to worry about it, in case I don't have spare keys on me but I'd like to warm my car up. It gets cold in these thar hills.
Click to expand...
I have a spare key in my wallet for just such an occasion.
To answer your original question I vaguely remember reading about this mod, the concern is you can now pop the trunk while driving I think.
 
Kidd-7 said:
I have a spare key in my wallet for just such an occasion.
To answer your original question I vaguely remember reading about this mod, the concern is you can now pop the trunk while driving I think.
Click to expand...

Oh shit! Don't make him do it, punk! Hahaha, I remember when this video came out, trying too hard.

 

SecuriCode Keypad Retrofit

When I bought my car, the original SecuriCode keypad was fairly damaged. The trim piece that fit it to the door was shattered and the retaining clip had fallen down inside the door. The buttons were also heavily worn. Thanks to the busted trim, water was getting inside the door and leaking into...
forum.birdcats.com forum.birdcats.com

Re: Locking keys in the car. Just saying.
 
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