Thinking about getting this 97

Ole SuperGordo is going to chime in. I even zoomed the picture in. That is a cork trans pan gasket. Get rid of that. Problem number one! Best to get the OEM reuseable pan gasket. The cork doesn't torque down well. I agree with Grog on the Dorman pan with the drain plug. It COULD be the manual shaft seal. You may as well do the pan gasket first. You can replace the manual shaft seal from the outside by removing the neutral safety switch. So you can eliminate the pan gasket first.
If you cannot source a proper pan gasket send me a message and I can help you find one. Ford should still sell them. There are ways to get them from autozone. Or in a pinch I can send you one. But I am NOT amazon... I can be slow.
The only 4r70w torque converter seal I saw leak was because a pump bushing came loose and moved forward and opened the converter seal up.
 
If it's dripping from the tc hole HOPE it's the drain plug, I should have said. The cork gaskets don't work, but every filter includes one. I agree with you, that's the leak.
 
It's not a common fail. I've yet to break a tc. I have a potential grenade one, so we'll see.
I would bet money that your 4r will fail a shaft seal, likely the direct, and it will clean off the frictions. I've killed a few that way. It's way more likely. I wouldn't worry about it. A stock rebuild kit is ~$250, and ~120 for the good plates for the direct. $10 for teflon seals, and it's good to race.
 
It looks like Victor, ATP, Mahle, and Pioneer all sell an OEM style overmolded rubber gasket that is reusable. Fel-Pro, ATP, and Pioneer also sell the lower end gasket so make sure you know what you are ordering. I'm guessing the filter kits come with the paper/cork gasket since they can fold it up and put it in the box with the filter.
 
Those OEM gaskets last a long time. Much better than cork or rubber.
 
Thanks everyone. I won't have time to get under her and get her cleaned up until probably Sunday at the earliest, after that, it'll have to be the following weekend. I'll definitely be monitoring ATF levels though in the interim.

@supergordo , your experience and keen eye is most appreciated!

If I'm going to be opening up the transmission from the bottom like this, would it also be a good time to do a mild J-Mod?

Grog6 said:
Get the dorman pan
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This is just a stock replacement with a drain plug, right?
 
It's always a good time for a j-mod on a virgin trans.
In fact, I'd get the new 1-2 accumulator piston, put the purple spring on top, no bottom, and do the 300hp jmod settings. Look at jerry's thesis for drill bit sizes. get about 3 of each, unless you're used to drilling steel. go slow, use coolant on the bit, and wear eye protection, broken tiny drill bits suck, embedded in your forehead,lol.

So, since we jumped in to help, in addition to the filter, gasket, pan, and o-ring,
Now you need a separator plate gasket set, a 1-2 bonded accumulator piston,and drill bits.
You also need a beam-type torque wrench or inch pounds to put the vb back in.
2 of the vb bolts are longer; keep track of them, they go in first.



 
Grog6 said:
It's always a good time for a j-mod on a virgin trans.
In fact, I'd get the new 1-2 accumulator piston, put the purple spring on top, no bottom, and do the 300hp jmod settings. Look at jerry's thesis for drill bit sizes. get about 3 of each, unless you're used to drilling steel. go slow, use coolant on the bit, and wear eye protection, broken tiny drill bits suck, embedded in your forehead,lol.

So, since we jumped in to help, in addition to the filter, gasket, pan, and o-ring,
Now you need a separator plate gasket set, a 1-2 bonded accumulator piston,and drill bits.
You also need a beam-type torque wrench or inch pounds to put the vb back in.
2 of the vb bolts are longer; keep track of them, they go in first.



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How deep of a rabbit hole do I want to go in on this for simply fixing the leaky transmission 🤔😅😂?

Also, is the 300hp setting really right for me as Gold Bird is going to be more or less stock in terms of HP output? Is there a lower HP output setting for the J-Mod, or is the 300hp setting the lowest available setting?

Maybe, eventually, I'll swap over the PI intake to Gold Bird from Dirty Bird at some future point, but that's a maybe.
 
I understand the dilemma. Everything I listed fixes known problems with a 96-7. The sleeve kit to fix the 1-2 acc bore is More than a better trans. I recommend an'02 to start with anyway, and they're easier to jmod.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
If I'm going to be opening up the transmission from the bottom like this, would it also be a good time to do a mild J-Mod?
Click to expand...
CDsDontBurn said:
How deep of a rabbit hole do I want to go in on this for simply fixing the leaky transmission 🤔😅😂?
Click to expand...

Seeing these two statements side by side, my point would be: dropping the pan is really easy. My recommendation would be to fix the leak now, then do the J-Mod whenever you've researched/decided what exactly you want.

CDsDontBurn said:
This is just a stock replacement with a drain plug, right?
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Correct. And anytime anyone mentions that Dorman pan, I always point out you can have the same benefit from a $5 hand pump. That allows you to siphon 4 quarts through the dipstick tube.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
How deep of a rabbit hole do I want to go in on this for simply fixing the leaky transmission 🤔😅😂?

Also, is the 300hp setting really right for me as Gold Bird is going to be more or less stock in terms of HP output? Is there a lower HP output setting for the J-Mod, or is the 300hp setting the lowest available setting?

Maybe, eventually, I'll swap over the PI intake to Gold Bird from Dirty Bird at some future point, but that's a maybe.
Click to expand...

The “HP” numbers really don’t mean anything pertaining to engine horsepower, I never quite understood why Jerry didn’t just call it stage 1, 2 or 3 as all it really means is a level of harshness. The 300hp one is the stage 1, or mild J mod if you will. It is what every 4R70w should have and in fact the factory specs for late 4R75ws are remarkably very similar to the 300hp settings, which makes sense since Jerry was engineering the thing.

A base 3.8 would benefit from the J mod to put it in perspective.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
What if one likes the way it shifts, and the driving style is more Nathan Lane than Burt Reynolds? Should one still do it?
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Yes, because ultimately it’s beneficial from a durability standpoint, not slipping the clutches unnecessarily leading to their premature wear. You could essentially do just the drill settings leaving the accumulator springs as is without sacrificing shift quality, like I said above if you’ve ever driven a later 4R70w/4R75w equipped car (Crown Vic Town Car etc) from the mid to late 2000s they’ve basically got the 300hp J mod stock.

That said my driving style is Burt Reynolds so take my standard for what you will… I will admit my old 450+ j mod was a wee bit harsh lol
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Seeing these two statements side by side, my point would be: dropping the pan is really easy. My recommendation would be to fix the leak now, then do the J-Mod whenever you've researched/decided what exactly you want.
Click to expand...

Dropping the pan is super easy. It's all right there and the hardest part of the job would be to not make a mess.

My thing on this is the whole "Well, while I'm here..." train of thought which is how I ended up with Dirty Bird being the way she is. It was originally just replace the rear wheel bearings type of job and now I'm balls deep and just shy of pulling out the engine only because it will take me that much longer to get her running 😅.

1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Correct. And anytime anyone mentions that Dorman pan, I always point out you can have the same benefit from a $5 hand pump. That allows you to siphon 4 quarts through the dipstick tube.
Click to expand...

Fuck using a hand pump from the fill hole.

XR7-4.6 said:
The “HP” numbers really don’t mean anything pertaining to engine horsepower, I never quite understood why Jerry didn’t just call it stage 1, 2 or 3 as all it really means is a level of harshness. The 300hp one is the stage 1, or mild J mod if you will. It is what every 4R70w should have and in fact the factory specs for late 4R75ws are remarkably very similar to the 300hp settings, which makes sense since Jerry was engineering the thing.

A base 3.8 would benefit from the J mod to put it in perspective.
Click to expand...

Good to know. So I'm going for a "Stage 1" J-Mod job.
 
I think Jerry's mindset for the HP settings for the shifting mod was that "if you make this much horsepower, you need at least this level of shift modification to get the benefit". Either method works. You can go as high or low as you want, but the more power you make, the higher up on settings you need to go to accomplish the same level of shift speed and thus, reduced heat/clutch wear.
 
Doing the 1-2 acc is to (a. see if a spring is broken, and (b, get the better piston in there; both of which prevent serious damage. It's a snapring, under the pan. Pushing it back in while putting the snapring back in is a pain, but doable. Purple spring on top is stock; leaving out the blue one on bottom shifts fast, but not too harsh. Brown spring on top barks the tires every 1-2, lol.
You can also leave the spring from the 2-3 accumulator out, if you drop the vb.

For now, I'd do the pan and good gasket, possibly look at the 1-2 for damage, examine the magnet carefully, and see if the 'toy' is in the pan. If it is, there's good chance the crud on the magnet is all the worn material, and you can guesstimate remaining life. Post a pic of the magnet. :)

More on the jmod: The vb is an electrically controlled hydraulic computer; the size of the holes sets the rate things happen, bigger=faster. as accumulator pistons move, holes open, making the shift happen. If the acc piston doesn't move to the bottom of the bore, it doesn't shift. Rate of shift is size of hole and epc pressure.
Y'all have heard me rant on '02 trans as a starting point. It's case has different holes in the case.All I do to jmod those is to add the 'superior super tuff plate, as it's already drilled, and helps the vb survive 2-3 acc oscillation. :)
That causes this:
i found it by refinding the 127.5mph upshift bug in our eec. I had od off, hit 127.5mph, and trans shiftet to 4th, then 3rd, then.... about 100 times, before I could get out of it.
It can be fixed in the tune.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I read about that happening to the bushing. Are factory bushings susceptible to this, or is it a problem with rebuild bushings?
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Well I only saw it once. And it was on a rebuild. Otherwise the pump bushings are generally fine.
 
supergordo said:
Well I only saw it once. And it was on a rebuild. Otherwise the pump bushings are generally fine.
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Good to know.

I looked at a few pics of the pump, and it seems the bushing is prevented from rotating in the pump hub by pressing two stakes into the bushing from the front. Which would also prevent the bushing from moving backwards; however, I didn't see anything preventing it from moving forward (?).
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
What if one likes the way it shifts, and the driving style is more Nathan Lane than Burt Reynolds? Should one still do it?
Click to expand...
This interesting thing about the J-mod is unlike a "shift kit" if you are just driving and cruising it doesn't punish you. But if you go full throttle to get on the highway or pass someone, it responds accordingly.
Both my sons cars, I built full Jerry spec transmissions, with higher stall converters. the MOST clutches, the highest settings on the Jmod. And if you just quietly head down the road, you wouldn't know that you take off in a flash in a moments notice.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Good to know.

I looked at a few pics of the pump, and it seems the bushing is prevented from rotating in the pump hub by pressing two stakes into the bushing from the front. Which would also prevent the bushing from moving backwards; however, I didn't see anything preventing it from moving forward (?).
Click to expand...
It's a press fit. Sometimes you get a pump that the hole isn't perfectly round anymore....
 
Grog6 said:
Main bearings,rod bearings, wheel bearings, all press fit. They don't rotate in place due to the pressure of being stuffed into a hole slightly too small.
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That’s not true for main/rod bearings, the tangs keep them from rotating. If you overheat/starve them of oil they’ll overcome the tangs and spin. Key to being a press fit is needing a press(or uh, hammer) to R&R them

Rear wheel bearings are press fit, as are cam bearings in pushrod engines, the control arm bushings, ball joints, numerous transmission bearings etc
 
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