Where in the hell are the washers?

Grog6 said:
I could feel .1mm play in an inner tie rod; You can't see that move. My mech said I was nuts, but replaced it when I insisted, and that fixed it, lol.
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Welp. Car is back. They are acting like you described your mechs. "We can't feel what you are feeling, maybe it's best to stop throwing money at the car, the noise you are hearing is normal play in the rack gear"

-_- losing my mind here.

Can I pull back the bellows without disconnected the tie rod so I can clearly look at the joint?
 
Yes, disconnect the bellow at the rack end and turn the wheel all the way out to the lock, that’ll give you full access to the inner toe rod joint
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Yes, disconnect the bellow at the rack end and turn the wheel all the way out to the lock, that’ll give you full access to the inner toe rod joint
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thank you. will show photos of what i find
 
welp here it is, the proof in the pudding. there isnt as much movement as i expected but also my dad isnt all as strong as he used to be.. and there shouldnt be any movement in and out what so ever right?

 
Also if I push hard enough I can get the shaft to move in and out of the rack too, and it is also making noise
 
Yeah that’s excessive. Good ones should have absolutely zero play

The rack noise may or not be indicative of a worn rack, when the engine’s off (eg no pressure) they tend to feel more sloppy. Generally though rack wear happens in specific points of the rack teeth rather than the pinion so when there’s tooth wear it will feel sloppy only at a certain point in the steering wheel rather than all the way around. Less generally our factory racks are hard wearing, usually what makes them “bad” is a seal leak.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Yeah that’s excessive. Good ones should have absolutely zero play

The rack noise may or not be indicative of a worn rack, when the engine’s off (eg no pressure) they tend to feel more sloppy. Generally though rack wear happens in specific points of the rack teeth rather than the pinion so when there’s tooth wear it will feel sloppy only at a certain point in the steering wheel rather than all the way around. Less generally our factory racks are hard wearing, usually what makes them “bad” is a seal leak.
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well i was having that binding senation in the steering wheel (worse with bad strut rod bushings and a clunk when braking) but now there is only an intermittent pop on braking and the same binding sensation, just again not as bad. Pretty much everything is tight tight besides the steering components themselves.

This far in i assumed the ball joints themselves but my rack is noisy too

edit: it seemed to happen more than anything when trying to turn to full lock/ back to center. something would pop in and out of place in the rack/ toe rods
 
Both of these could be explained by bad inner tie rods,binding obviously but also popping in braking as under braking the tires will try to splay out out and then at the moment you fully stop they will unload and pop.

I mean if you want absolute peace of mind you can replace the rack, and if you’re still planning on installing poly mount bushings it’s about as much work to put them into the existing one as it is to outright replace it. I don’t think you need to but food for thought
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Both of these could be explained by bad inner tie rods,binding obviously but also popping in braking as under braking the tires will try to splay out out and then at the moment you fully stop they will unload and pop.

I mean if you want absolute peace of mind you can replace the rack, and if you’re still planning on installing poly mount bushings it’s about as much work to put them into the existing one as it is to outright replace it. I don’t think you need to but food for thought
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Alright. Here is the same test, one wheel as the anchor and the other jacked up but this time with the steering wheel itself unlocked

 
Putting a new rack in is a job I'd pay someone to do; my hands are too fucking big.
 
Grog6 said:
Putting a new rack in is a job I'd pay someone to do; my hands are too fucking big.
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i got small hands, but not too sure i have the strength
 
It’s a royal PIA. I hated replacing my rack. It is doable though, take your time and plan for the whole weekend. I ended up having to replace the power steering pump also, taking the pulley off 3 times finally broke the seal.

If you replace it go with a Mustang rack, well worth the upgrade.
 
Kidd-7 said:
It’s a royal PIA. I hated replacing my rack. It is doable though, take your time and plan for the whole weekend. I ended up having to replace the power steering pump also, taking the pulley off 3 times finally broke the seal.

If you replace it go with a Mustang rack, well worth the upgrade.
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SN95, 1999-2004 GT Mustang, specifically?
 
I believe the difference is the Torsion bar, or dogbone, that gives the difference in feel.
I had an email from a guy at raybestos to buy those dogbones, but I couldn't reach him after the pandemic. It couples the valves to the steering shaft.
 
KevinVarnes said:
Although Jack Hidley was posting as of a few years ago that internally all of the '99-'04 Mustang racks are the same internally and the only difference was on the stops installed so who knows. I think I have a '02 GT rack to put into my LTD wagon.
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V6 GT/Mach 1/Cobra all do differ, but generally the reman ones don’t discern other than the rack limiters.
 
well i took the car back in and asked for them to do inner, outer, and rack bushings.

I showed my videos to the front end guy there and he said "that is the least amount of play ive ever seen in a ball joint"

The first time around it was "everything is tight, that is just your rack gear making noise/ normal play"

now its oh well there is play but thats nothing to them... ik some cars have axial play in their joints, but ours arent supposed to have any with load bearing joints no??
 
Also the head of the shop believed me, but didnt seem to think it was worth fixing "You should stop throwing money at this car lucas" well shit i love the cars and it will still be cheaper than financing a new one XD
 
LukesCougar said:
Also the head of the shop believed me, but didnt seem to think it was worth fixing "You should stop throwing money at this car lucas" well shit i love the cars and it will still be cheaper than financing a new one XD
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It honestly sounds like you need to find a new shop.

You're giving them your business by going there, they just need to do their job and do it well, not half-ass the work to get you out of their shop to bring in a newer car that's "worth fixing".
 
CDsDontBurn said:
It honestly sounds like you need to find a new shop.

You're giving them your business by going there, they just need to do their job and do it well, not half-ass the work to get you out of their shop to bring in a newer car that's "worth fixing".
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I agree, the issue is there is limited "good shops here" one slapped new timing chains on my vw thinking it would fix the low oil pressure, another left links hanging loose on my first cougar, one sold me the 96 cougar without telling me any of the more major issues it had.

Just seems like everyone around here wants to screw me or just doesnt have the passion to care about the quality of handling i seek.

They did good work for me in the past, but with techs changing out and years gone by they have failed me multiple times.
 
I do thank you guys for all your help throught this, but i dont have the back bone to make these guys do a good job, im met with blank stares and and reactions that are about as expected for a young man with minimal automotive education.. i will continue my search for a more specialized or passionate shop, i have just been failed one too many times.

as others have stated before and even my dad, i need to stop being an arrogant son of a bitch and complaining about the system, and acquire the education and tools to fix this stuff and other things myself, but currently i am no fabricator, and i hate (some) engineers XD

The inner tie rods will be replaced by myself or i will insist the shop does it and related parts like the rack bushings, and outers. I do hope that this is the end of the thread and the only thing ill have to look forward to after is shitty brakes, rust prevention, and paint, then the go fast stuff

until something else suspension/ steering wise wants to say hello

I planned on doing cat back exhaust months ago as one of the first true mods. The company selling the kit failed me while a shop within an hour drive was ready to weld it up.

I planned on having this car riding good with little to no play months ago and the shop/aftermarket has failed me.

I just need to stop rambling and buy a wider range of sockets, and specialized tools, and then i need to make all the mistakes these :birdbangtechs have because im curious how someone with the actual education managed to get this far.
 
LukesCougar said:
I do thank you guys for all your help throught this, but i dont have the back bone to make these guys do a good job, im met with blank stares and and reactions that are about as expected for a young man with minimal automotive education.. i will continue my search for a more specialized or passionate shop, i have just been failed one too many times.

as others have stated before and even my dad, i need to stop being an arrogant son of a bitch and complaining about the system, and acquire the education and tools to fix this stuff and other things myself, but currently i am no fabricator, and i hate (some) engineers XD

The inner tie rods will be replaced by myself or i will insist the shop does it and related parts like the rack bushings, and outers. I do hope that this is the end of the thread and the only thing ill have to look forward to after is shitty brakes, rust prevention, and paint, then the go fast stuff

until something else suspension/ steering wise wants to say hello

I planned on doing cat back exhaust months ago as one of the first true mods. The company selling the kit failed me while a shop within an hour drive was ready to weld it up.

I planned on having this car riding good with little to no play months ago and the shop/aftermarket has failed me.

I just need to stop rambling and buy a wider range of sockets, and specialized tools, and then i need to make all the mistakes these :birdbangtechs have because im curious how someone with the actual education managed to get this far.
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You sound like me 15yrs ago. Shoot, I still don't know everything.

Lots of asking questions and building up tools to get to do full tear downs for whatever it is you need to do.

You have a great community here to help support you as well for whatever it is you need to ask about.
 
if you are a learning mechanic, start with a broken lawn mower. Take it apart, see why it died. If there's a sears model similar, you can get parts thru sears parts direct. fix it, sell it.
Do a motorcycle next, work up to the bigger stuff. In 1978, I rebuilt a 2 stroke dirt bike; in '80, I rebuilt a 390, and a 3x2bbl manifold in a 63 tbird. You can do it if you try.
 
Grog6 said:
if you are a learning mechanic, start with a broken lawn mower. Take it apart, see why it died. If there's a sears model similar, you can get parts thru sears parts direct. fix it, sell it.
Do a motorcycle next, work up to the bigger stuff. In 1978, I rebuilt a 2 stroke dirt bike; in '80, I rebuilt a 390, and a 3x2bbl manifold in a 63 tbird. You can do it if you try.
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i would say the most intensive jobs i have done are swapping intakes, and a timing job on my vw cc that failed pretty miserably because the engine had low oil pressure so it wasnt gonna last long anyways without a full rebuilt, and i didnt have the tools or skill.

I have rebuilt an ssr 125. little cheapo bikes, but ive never touched anything full size when it comes to swapping powertrains or rebuilding them. I was gonna attempt to rebuild the 97 coug but it was my daily and a couple weeks gone by and little progress made me give up quickly.
 
Tearing down lawn mower engines never taught me much of anything I didn’t know from the books, other than piston rings they’re pretty much apples and oranges to a mid century or newer car engine with their flatheads and oil splash lubrication system. I also never got the one I tore apart as a kid running ever again because I took a death wheel to the end of the crank because I didn’t have a press to remove the blade collar thing.


Motorcycle however I can see, a sizable part of the reason I bought one was to mess with unfamiliar and simpler mechanicals and I quickly realized how familiar it actually was to what I’m used to with modern car engines… carburetor notwithstanding
 
Cycles caught up to cars in the 70's, tech-wise. My 80 dohc was ahead of most, in 1980. I knew a guy with a Z1R kawasaki with 150 hp about then.The TZ750 I rode then did too. 0-150 in 100 yards, with my ass holding on for dear life lol.
Check out a Ducati Desmodromic valvetrain, for exotic.
 
Grog6 said:
Cycles caught up to cars in the 70's, tech-wise. My 80 dohc was ahead of most, in 1980. I knew a guy with a Z1R kawasaki with 150 hp about then.The TZ750 I rode then did too. 0-150 in 100 yards, with my ass holding on for dear life lol.
Check out a Ducati Desmodromic valvetrain, for exotic.
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My Shadow was water cooled, SOHC, 3 valves per cylinder, DIS ignition and even had a composite intake off the carb. Thing was basically a modular minus 6 cylinders 😝
 
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