Cam position sensor

Rodeo Joe said:
I was afraid this might be the issue, I'm a total noob when it comes to wiring issues, I don't even have a voltmeter. :sad: Dan, are you talking about doing live data?
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Yes .. without knowing what the PCM is actually reading or what the signal looks like at the connector, it's more of a guessing game with the PCM swap.

Nothing we can't guide you through, but without a volt meter at minimum; you can't do a whole lot except a visual, wiggle test or a heat gun test.

Best would be a test light for determining if the wiring between sensor and PCM is up to par if you can rig something up .. a volt meter may confirm continuity of the wire but not its ability to handle amperage. A light bulb would give you a better idea .. dim light = bad wiring. Least you can do is check the connector for corrosion and if any is present it is usually wicked up the wiring.

Joe, I might have an older spare Snap-On Vantage graphing multimeter I could lend your way if you think that might help, let me know.
 
With decent weather on the horizon, I think it's time to get moving on this. I'm thinking of starting with getting a spare EEC and try that and see what happens with the code. Poking around on eBay, I've found a few for around $80 shipped. It looks like there's 2 catch codes for the 3.8 and both seem to be available. I don't think that's a problem, is it?! :unsure:

Joe
 
Joe, Charlies down in dayton tn has 3 cars in stock 75 bux.What is your catch code?
 
It being a 97 worries me, I had a 97 fail the trans controls. If you buy one a 96 might be a better option. Crap, I forgot about MA emissions. The ones from here would Not pass, lol.
 
You should be fine with any 96/97 PCM. You only need to worry about CA emissions PCMs going into CA cars. When they test for emissions here in OH they just check to be sure the diagnostic monitors are all complete and there are no DTCs. Can't be too different in MA... :unsure:
 
I was pretty sure they have their own catchcodes on car-part. Ours are "federal"
This is the list, just for reference.


Ignition Control, 6-232 (3.8L), supercharged option
Ignition Control, 6-232 (3.8L), w/o supercharged option; California
Ignition Control, 6-232 (3.8L), w/o supercharged option; Federal (distributor mounted)
Ignition Control, 8-280 (4.6L)
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 6-232 (3.8L), Massachusetts
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 6-232 (3.8L), New York
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 8-280 (4.6L), California
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 8-280 (4.6L), Federal
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 8-280 (4.6L), Massachusetts
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 8-280 (4.6L), New York
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 6-232 (3.8L), California
Electronic Control Module, (behind RH kick panel), 6-232 (3.8L), Federal
Power Module, (LH dash)
 
The catch code on mine is SPP4, the other code I've seen is RCX3. I'm not sure if there's anymore than these. No emission testing here if the car is 20 years or older. My only concern is buying one and it's a POS.

Joe
 
That's the bummer for JY parts. I've got a working 4.6 one, but... I'm going to call charlies later, to ask for some codes on the diffs they have; They show several cars, and I'd love to find a locker for $100. :) I may have to go down there and look myself, lol. If you have a tune on your car, you can use any 97 eec. I've reflashed an FTE1 to a MBE2, so a tune overwrites the catch code setups. Which makes sense; the tune in it is geared toward the geographical areas. We learned that driving into denver from the low country, is just beyond the adjustment range. :) That was fun, lol.
 
Grog6 said:
That's the bummer for JY parts. I've got a working 4.6 one, but... I'm going to call charlies later, to ask for some codes on the diffs they have; They show several cars, and I'd love to find a locker for $100. :) I may have to go down there and look myself, lol. If you have a tune on your car, you can use any 97 eec. I've reflashed an FTE1 to a MBE2, so a tune overwrites the catch code setups. Which makes sense; the tune in it is geared toward the geographical areas. We learned that driving into denver from the low country, is just beyond the adjustment range. :) That was fun, lol.
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No they aren’t. Catch codes are no different than the iOS version on an Apple device, software is always being updated to the latest version only with EECs unless there’s a necessary recall your PCM won’t likely get that update(flash). Colorado cars have the same catch codes as anywhere else, the 94 I pulled the fuel tank heat shield and various other rust free bits from had the same catch code on the sticker as my Cougar’s original PCM(my car originated in Michigan).

Altitude effects air density, and that’s the whole purpose of the mass air sensor to measure and the EEC to account for in fuel delivery. Air is thinner at altitude, so less air is going through the meter in Denver than Chicago, which is well in the range of the transfer function. If air was super thick like higher density than sea level/different planet thick you could reasonably max out the MAF(like a boosted car) but not the other way around. Any change you saw driving from low country to high country was the loss of power due to the reduction of air mass, but that doesn’t mean you weren’t running at stoich, it just doesn’t breathe as well, just like us humans at altitude. That’s the problem with carbureted cars going into altitude or vice versa since the jets are fixed orifices that can’t adjust to the air density change, throwing off A/F, one of EFIs first big selling points over carbs was how it copes with altitude and seasonal changes.
 
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There was a guy years ago, that had that problem; all the tuning guys were posting about it. the solution everyone came up with was to drive halfway up the mountain, reset the computer, and drive around until the p1000 code reset. :) Then the car drove fine. I think Don had the last post on that one. The original tune was a lonnie tune; I think that's why I remember it. The deeper code is not accessible to dealers either, apparently. The problem was "how it calculated the barometric pressure, from the o2 data." Which seems like a messed up way to figure that, but I'm not a ford engineer, lol. This was about the time I joined the forum, and was one of the things that pushed me for learning to tune.
 
Here we are again... I just re-read this entire thread because my symptoms (P0320 plus intermittent hesitation and confused tach needle) are back. This has been going on for about a week.

For those that don't remember, the last time I sort threw everything at the wall to see what sticks. Ultimately, I didn't know if the fix was cleaning of the connectors or re-gapping all the plugs.

I do know that I won't re-re-gap the plugs.
 
Could I get one of you to reiterate to me the conditions under which I can utilize another PCM?

Here is what I think I know; please correct me if I'm wrong:
  • Any MN12 PCM from a 96 or 97 V6 would be interchangeable. Calibration other than factory should be on sticker in driver door frame.

  • Mustang PCMs would be interchangeable if:
    • it's a V6,
      and
    • it's an automatic,
      and
    • it's a 96 or 97 (not entirely sure why; I'm guessing they had distributers before 96; not sure why a 98 wouldn't be ok though? I think 99 was when they changed the intake, etc.?)
Did I miss anything?

Let's assume I tried a Mustang PCM and my issue was resolved, could I just keep using that long-term?
 
98 added PATS security, 99+ was returnless fuel, canbus and all sorts of other crap, 95 and earlier are EEC IV with a totally different connector, and yes a distributer ignition
 
That whole concept just pisses me off. Everyone designs their shit to outlast the warranty, but just barely. They started that shit with light bulbs way back, and the consumer has been screwed ever since. I've always bought Sears stuff, as it was good, and their parts department is legendary. The warehouse over in Knoxville off weisgarber road was like that warehouse at the end of Indiana Jones, lol. or Warehouse 13... Props to their parts guys, even now. After my stroke, while the supply crunch was ongoing, one of their guys found me a thermostat for my water heater, in a warehouse in Laos, lol. And placed an order that was filled, lol.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-great-lightbulb-conspiracy Amazing these days, bt this was real. :) This is what was happening about that time; they made these: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=longest+burning+incandescent+light+bulb
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Could I get one of you to reiterate to me the conditions under which I can utilize another PCM?

Here is what I think I know; please correct me if I'm wrong:
  • Any MN12 PCM from a 96 or 97 V6 would be interchangeable. Calibration other than factory should be on sticker in driver door frame.

  • Mustang PCMs would be interchangeable if:
    • it's a V6,
      and
    • it's an automatic,
      and
    • it's a 96 or 97 (not entirely sure why; I'm guessing they had distributers before 96; not sure why a 98 wouldn't be ok though? I think 99 was when they changed the intake, etc.?)
Did I miss anything?

Let's assume I tried a Mustang PCM and my issue was resolved, could I just keep using that long-term?
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Regarding my question above, is axle ratio a consideration? Would a Mustang PCM work if the axle ratio was different? (Or did Mustang use the same ratio?)

A '96 just showed up in the junkyard. I don't seem to have issues currently, but I figure it could be a nice experiment.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
I think both are 3.27
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Actually this '96 Mustang V6 automatic had a 2.73 axle (code 8):

20240407_132256.jpg20240407_170646.jpg

I think that means that, absent reprogramming, one really needs an MN12 PCM, which are very hard to find for a V6 in my local yards.

No immediate urgency for me currently, but it would be nice to have a spare PCM just to be able to ascertain whether or not certain powertrain issues are caused by the PCM or not.
 
It’s not absolute necessity they’re a match, the only difference would be the N/V calculation that will alter shift points slightly but it can compensate within that window. You don’t often see people getting tunes when going to 3.73s which is about the same jump
 
It will at least tell you whether it's the eec. That's an expensive lesson, but you'll eventually need one. :)
In 4.6's there seem to be more reliable catch codes in the 4.6 eecs; I standardized on MBE2 eec's, since neither of the cougars have had issues.
 
I swapped in an EEC I picked up off eBay and I have the same results as I did with the one I borrowed from Martin, no code!

So after buying a new sensor, new synchronizer it turned out to be this. Car runs good with the new one, like it did with Martin's. I had a tune on mine that Jerry did over 20 years ago so there is a little difference in the driving. I might reach out to Don and have it put something together for me.

One question though. When I swapped out the one I just bought, I left it hanging down on the floor. I took the car out for about 20 minutes with the windows down in this lovely 86 degree heat, no A/C on. I noticed when I got back the EEC was warm to the touch, is this normal? 🤔

Joe
 
My Scan Gauge II gets oddly hot to the touch from a cat4(?) cable, so I wouldn't be surprised but 20 minutes is a bit quick. The CDs I burn get strangely hot too
 
It’s normal, I noticed the same thing when I left a PCM hanging. The whole outer shell is a big heat sync for the transistors inside
 
Rodeo Joe said:
So after buying a new sensor, new synchronizer it turned out to be this.
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While that's a bit annoying in hindsight, your sequence of diagnostics/repairs followed the course that was most logical at the time. Hey, you got to know your engine a bit more intimately!

Did the new unit come with any info regarding its calibration code?

I think you said that your tune was specific to your axle ratio, so I imagine you'll need to get the new unit tuned for proper shift points (?).
 
All I have about it is it came from a 97, it’s an aftermarket unit not a factory rebuild. The tune I had was for the factory 3.27 ratio, I have 3.73s in it now.

Joe
 
Rodeo Joe said:
The tune I had was for the factory 3.27ratio
Click to expand...

Got it.

Just by curiosity: after you remove the passenger kick panel, is there an additional black plastic panel behind it, about the same shape, with foam glued to it?

Mine did not have that panel originally, and my junkyard observations are very inconsistent, though it may be a model year thing.
 
Directly behind the kick panel, no. A little further up over the EEC, yes. Mine was built in December, 1996.

Joe
 
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