Continued - Question about 1-2 shift

1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Makes me think how many of us love the "analog" feel of these cars compared to more modern vehicles (which would simply disregard a shift input that would be harmful).

My '15 Buick would display the message "Shift Denied" if you attempted anything stupid.

That's another reason why I'd prefer a gated or serpentine type shifter where you have to move the shifter sideways, then back/forward.
The lock button shifter seems more secure, and theoretically it is designed to prevent unwanted shifts: to shift into 1st, you have to push the button in further than to shift into 2nd only. In reality, you just push the button in all the way, so that difference doesn't matter.

Of course all that doesn't matter if you intentionally shift into 1st. I don't think I've ever done that; the engine braking is so obnoxious in 1st. I do use the locked in 2nd pretty regularly in parking lots just to prevent constant back and forth shifting between 1st and 2nd gear.
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I never downshift to first even for engine breaking, every one of these cars ive had i can feel the driveshaft buck and the trans whine when going from 2-1.. i would assume this has something to due with lockup but im obviously no expert. Ive only really every downshifted with the od button letting it go from 4-3 and only have ever gone to 2nd downshifting on hills/ pulls but never first unless ive came to a stop. I have a really bad habit of upshifting but i was under the impression its not nearly as bad for lockup/ line pressure vs downshifting. So i almost never downshift but i am curious how my shifting from D-2 to chirp the tires treats a 4r70w.. ive seen others call it a "redneck jmod" i would assume its not the best thing to do, but assuming the fluid/filter/accumulator change goes well it will shift plenty quick without me having to touch the shifter along with a tune. It only has to last until i can buy a better converter/ rebuild kit/ mk8 driveshaft
 
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dDUBb said:
That myth came from Dodge Caravans in the 80s - the clutch frictions were defective and the material suspended in the fluid was the only thing holding it together. This happened on vehicles well under 100k miles. Ford transmissions don't have the same delamination defect, but not changing old dirty ATF isn't helping either.
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Subaru is having the same problem with their CVTs. Sister has a Crosstrek. Owners manual says to change the CVT fluid at 60k. She did so at the dealer and her CVT was dead by 85k. Thankfully it was replaced under the extended warranty.

Now the dealers are just about refusing to touch the fluid on them.
 
I change the trans fluid at 25k, oil at 2500. That seems to work best. I put 500k miles on lazarus with that scheme, And every bit of breakage to it I pretty much caused. I've broken:
3 transmissions
three wheels
an intake manifold
rear quarterpanel
two control arms
two knuckles
halfshaft
spindle
and a brake disk. At 500k, it has a rod knock due to an extended run at high rpm, one of the last times it was driven, three years ago, during the lockdown, while the interstate was empty, and cops weren't pulling people over. :D
It's been an awesome car.
 
Grog6 said:
I change the trans fluid at 25k, oil at 2500. That seems to work best. I put 500k miles on lazarus with that scheme, And every bit of breakage to it I pretty much caused. I've broken:
3 transmissions
three wheels
an intake manifold
rear quarterpanel
two control arms
two knuckles
halfshaft
spindle
and a brake disk. At 500k, it has a rod knock due to an extended run at high rpm, one of the last times it was driven, three years ago, during the lockdown, while the interstate was empty, and cops weren't pulling people over. :D
It's been an awesome car.
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I find even with our 4 speed slushboxes i find our cars to be really reliable. I got a 97 at 160k miles for 600$ and drove it hard all the time doing plenty of burnouts. The trans started having issues and me not fixing the trans led to other bad things. When the 4r70w locked up it took the motor with it. around 195k miles and i beat on the car hard for about 2 years mostly in town driving. I still think if i would have rebuilt the trans the motor would be fine.. i cant prove that and i dont fully understand how the transmissions work so im not sure if my whole trans took the motor along with it theory is true, but i had 4 neutrals and 0 oil pressure in a split second at the same time so my thought was something in the trans took a shit and all the torque that couldnt be sent through it went right back into the crank.
Id imagine our cars would regularly last 300-500k if people took care of them. I saw a guy on youtube purchased a 95 or 94 bird with the pre npi intake setup.. had 300k and he threw 150 dry shot at it on stock plugs for 9 months i think he said going through a bottle about every weekend. He got the car similar case to my car. People didnt think it was worth working on and sold it for cheap to get rid of it quickly.. but hell if it took 150 shot all day long for almost a year i wonder how the car would treat someone that just needs to get to work and back.
 
If you fix the transmission right, it will last the whole 500k or so. I've put 100k on a new jy trans. but it was in 06, when an 02 was only 3 years old, lol.12,000 miles, and it had the new build process done to it in 2008 or so, when the car had 200k on it.It was doing a 2nd gear burnout in 09, when I dropped a valve, and the trans is still in the red Cougar. I expect it to work ok after sitting, but I'll change the fluids sooner than normal. That car has a newly installed 2003 Lincoln Towncar 2VPI motor.Now I need to get insurance, since I'm not eating handfulls of pain meds.All I get now is blood pressure meds.I was on a few last year that were awful, but you don't notice until you aren't taking them.
I swapped occasional weed and flexoril for four large opiate painkillers a day, I've been prescribed for the previous three years.
M quality of life is much better, but I actually do stuff now.
If you're going to keep your car look for a transmission shop that will rebuilld one cheap.Or learn how to work on stuff, which would be my recommendation. keep an eye on the junkyards close to you, find an 02, put a kit in it, and you will be done with trans stuff.
 
Grog6 said:
If you fix the transmission right, it will last the whole 500k or so. I've put 100k on a new jy trans. but it was in 06, when an 02 was only 3 years old, lol.12,000 miles, and it had the new build process done to it in 2008 or so, when the car had 200k on it.It was doing a 2nd gear burnout in 09, when I dropped a valve, and the trans is still in the red Cougar. I expect it to work ok after sitting, but I'll change the fluids sooner than normal. That car has a newly installed 2003 Lincoln Towncar 2VPI motor.Now I need to get insurance, since I'm not eating handfulls of pain meds.All I get now is blood pressure meds.I was on a few last year that were awful, but you don't notice until you aren't taking them.
I swapped occasional weed and flexoril for four large opiate painkillers a day, I've been prescribed for the previous three years.
M quality of life is much better, but I actually do stuff now.
If you're going to keep your car look for a transmission shop that will rebuilld one cheap.Or learn how to work on stuff, which would be my recommendation. keep an eye on the junkyards close to you, find an 02, put a kit in it, and you will be done with trans stuff.
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My main issue is i dont trust myself. i feel like i could rebuild a trans outside of the car with time to read and really make sure i do everything correct, but in terms of doing anything major on cars by myself ive done balance shafts/ timing chains on a vw 2.0tsi (those engines are nightmares)
but ive always left anything internal wise to the experts. Never done an engine or trans rebuild. Once i have more tools, and summer comes around it would be a good oppurtunity for me to get to it though.
 
Grog6 said:
I swapped occasional weed and flexoril for four large opiate painkillers a day, I've been prescribed for the previous three years.
M quality of life is much better, but I actually do stuff now.
If you're going to keep your car look for a transmission shop that will rebuilld one cheap.Or learn how to work on stuff, which would be my recommendation. keep an
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I myself like a good smoke. Unless i do too much then im overthinking life itself. I have been unlucky enough to have 2 heart surgeries and been hit by a car already, and im still a bit younger. It does help though i feel like because i feel less pain in my back, time goes by a little quicker, and i sleep good at night without a single thought to keep me up, i do have a terrible nic habit i started in early hs when vapes became big. Currently mentally preparing myself to quit becuase ive smoked some very strong nic for years and its starting to catch up with me so my choice is withdrawls or get ill again.

I would like to keep the car, it has some rocker panel/ side skirt rust id need to take care of to keep it long term. Ive already put so much money into it that it would be silly to not fix it up. I need to get the ac working, rust spots fixed, then its a fully functional and decent looking car and a built trans is what ill assume ill spend the most on.
 
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LukesCougar said:
My main issue is i dont trust myself.
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You're way ahead of me. The most I've done to the transmission is flush it.

I find that you build confidence by doing things very slowly, following step by step instructions, plus the people on here are usually available with real-time advice when you need it.

I start messing up when I'm in a rush...


Speaking of the transmission, in general which is better for transmission health? Consider the following scenario: I'm cruising at 45 mph in 4th gear in the right lane; left lane is busy but moving much faster; I look into my sideview mirror and see an opportunity to move left, but I'll have to speed up quickly:
  • I wait for the gap next to me, move left while hitting the accelerator, car shifts into 3rd and speeds up, then shifts back into 4th.
Or:
  • I turn off overdrive and cruise in 3rd while waiting for the gap next to me, move left while hitting the accelerator, car speeds up, then I turn overdrive back on and car shifts back into 4th.

I mean it's an automatic. Part of me says just let it do its thing. On the other hand, the car responds much better when you're already in 3rd when you want to accelerate.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
You're way ahead of me. The most I've done to the transmission is flush it.

I find that you build confidence by doing things very slowly, following step by step instructions, plus the people on here are usually available with real-time advice when you need it.

I start messing up when I'm in a rush...


Speaking of the transmission, in general which is better for transmission health? Consider the following scenario: I'm cruising at 45 mph in 4th gear in the right lane; left lane is busy but moving much faster; I look into my sideview mirror and see an opportunity to move left, but I'll have to speed up quickly:
  • I wait for the gap next to me, move left while hitting the accelerator, car shifts into 3rd and speeds up, then shifts back into 4th.
Or:
  • I turn off overdrive and cruise in 3rd while waiting for the gap next to me, move left while hitting the accelerator, car speeds up, then I turn overdrive back on and car shifts back into 4th.

I mean it's an automatic. Part of me says just let it do its thing. On the other hand, the car responds much better when you're already in 3rd when you want to accelerate.
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I agree. Funny enough i did the same thing on my 97 a good bit. Never had an issue with 3-4 shift until the whole trans came apart. It was slipping on the 1-2 shift but o/d still worked fine. Ive heard people say to leave it be but for me i live around plenty of hills because im right by a valley/ manmade lake, and i do mostly town driving. So 4th gear is almost useless to me it. Id rather be cruising around 30-35 mph in 3rd than cruising at 35 in 4th and bogging.
Still havent gotten around to fixing o/d but its on the list of things. Next time i have spare time was gonna install new front struts assembly/ rear shocks.
Also off topic i did end up finding my old headlights off my 97 and stole a mounting piece off it. Now my lamps point where i want them to and dont have to worry about no jerry riggin.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Remind me, what was wrong with it? If it's just the button, you simply pull it out of the handle and clean the contacts.
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I think somewhere under the center console a wire isnt properly connected, i noticed because when pulling parts from my 97 i saw where the od cable ran. on my 96 its not even connected to anything so i would assume when i sent it to my mechanic to have some wiring done they could have unplugged it but im not sure where it even goes because i cannot see how it runs up into the shifter. tbh i just havent gotten around to taking it apart because ive been doing other things on the car. I thought about just pulling the shifter knob from my 97 with the good button and od cable and just swapping it over to my 96 since i know it works fine.
 
It's not necessarily a plug & play swap. 97s have a 4-wire connector whereas others have a 2-wire connector. 97 knobs share the connector with the illumination of the gear indicator; that's why.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
It's not necessarily a plug & play swap. 97s have a 4-wire connector whereas others have a 2-wire connector. 97 knobs share the connector with the illumination of the gear indicator; that's why.
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Ah. I wasnt aware. Could the od cable just be routed differently and that went over my head? The button stopped working basically when i got the car back from the shop when i had them fix some of the wiring problems.
 
I mean it could be all kinds of things...

The console as a whole has one large wiring harness which plugs into the dash harness by a white 8-pin connector directly forward of the shifter. It includes O/D, traction assist (on 97, even if not so equipped), trunk release, ashtray and shift indicator illumination, fuel door release before that feature was discontinued, 12V cigar lighter (even on 97, though only on the female side of the white connector).

That harness runs backward along the right side of the console, below the rear heat duct, to the armrest area. There it splits up, and the wires for the O/D and shifter illumination run forward to the shifter area. Here the 97 has one 4-wire connector; previous years have two 2-wire connectors. The O/D wires then run into the shifter assembly from the back and up through the black plastic shroud.

They are very tight and small gauge. If anyone attempted to remove the shift knob without first disconnecting the connector and unclipping the wires from the shifter assembly, the wires are easily torn out of the shifter.
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
Is your trunk release working? And your shifter illumination?
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yes trunk works fine, also fishing plate for the shifter does light up but the little red piece that moves inside of it got stuck or broke. My cig lighter did not work but for now its just unhooked from the harness and i swapped a 97 center console with cupholders/ coin slots in. My radio has a usb port so charging things isnt a huge issue right now.
I plan on wiring my own od so aslong as i know where the wires for the od switch are and what type of button to use. Id assume it would need to be a button like it came with and i cant just use an on/ off switch?
 
LukesCougar said:
I plan on wiring my own od so aslong as i know where the wires for the od switch are and what type of button to use. Id assume it would need to be a button like it came with and i cant just use an on/ off switch?
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Any momentary switch will do. I used one from a Lincoln MKX, but it really depends on where you want to mount it and what clearances you're working with.

The routing of the wires I described above. On 97, they're purple/orange and tan/white.

But again, if you're keeping the stock shifter, or a stock shifter, it makes more sense to fix the stock button. It's positioned perfectly for ergonomics. The only reason I repositioned mine was my custom shift knob.
 
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Pushbutton Button Switch SPST-NO Set, 6 colors

6 pc. Mini SPST-NO momentary push button switches. 1 ea. with Red, Black, White, Yellow, Green & Blue button tops. Mounts in a 7mm hole. Solder tab terminals. Rated 3 Amps @ 125VAC. MPJA Inc has a large selection of toggle switches ready to ship!
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Any of those will work.
 
The only prob with ebay is you never know what's in the bottle. I buy a lot of stuff there, but car stuff insn't one of them. Definitely, don't buy suspension 'kits' from ebay, lol.
One of the oil change places I used to go to in the 90's got busted for refilling their tanks with recycled oil. Luckily they pissed me off when the management changed, and I wasn't going there when it went bad. Hell, I grabbed 3 gallons of oil at walmart one day a few years back, and noticed the seals were broken, and the bottles had been refilled with old oil. I knew the service manager, and he had them go thru the tapes, and it turned out one of the employees was doing it with oil changes, and stealing the good oil, offering oil changes to people from his home, lol. People here will steal anything.
 
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