Finance Thread - What stocks are you in, etc.

[Trunk Monkey]

What's the opinion regarding precious metals?

My brother has long insisted on investing in silver, though I'm not much on commodities as investment. To date I've got a examples of each of the primary precious metals (silver, gold, platinum), though mostly to satisfy an academic desire to have examples of each metal and less to invest in them.

Examining the last 30 years, it looks like gold and the market have matched each other's pace overall, accepting rises/dips in each (often opposing each other)... but I feel like putting a dollar into the market is a better use of it than buying gold. Despite that, there is a certain appeal to the tangible (shiny!) nature of metals.

How does your brother invest in silver and how has that worked out for him? IMHO you're smart to stay away from commodities. I agree with putting a dollar in the market is a much better investment than the shiny stuff.

Looking briefly at the SLV (iShare Silver) it's up only 152% since inception in 2007. IMHO There are a lot of better places to put that money that have returned much more over that time period.

 

[theterminator93]

I think he bought up a lot of silver and has been selling it off to feed his bad habits. My brother is a moron, lol. He's 35 this fall and still lives with our parents in their mid-70s who aren't very financially secure. He has no income, hasn't worked in 5 years and hasn't shown any interest in getting back into the job market - despite plenty of opportunities and connections laid at his feet by family.

Thanks for the reassurance. I'll continue to treat the precious metals as a mere fascination instead of a potential financial vein.

 

[dDUBb]

Back in 2003 when I worked at the bank, I managed to find a bunch of 90% half dollars ( Kennedy 64, Franklin, and Walking Liberty varieties. Bought them for face value ( 0.50 ) even though spot price was around $5-6 / oz. at that time. 20 years later; spot value is around $36 / Oz. Aside from their silver content value, these tend to have a slightly higher collector value.

More recently, on June 13th the US mint offered a 2025 American Eagle silver dollar [ face value $1 ) .. with the US Army 250th anniversary privy mark for $105; limited to 100k; they sold out in 3 hours and are selling for upwards of $600.

 

[theterminator93]

I used to nab noteworthy coins from the till when I worked cash registers during my retail days. I would pick out the nicest uncirculated specimens from fresh rolls for my Whitman folders and occasionally I'd find something noteworthy. A few buffalo nickels, a few silver dimes and even an Indian head penny. Sometimes I wished I could've sifted through everyone else's tills.

 

[dDUBb]

I would pick out the nicest uncirculated specimens from fresh rolls for my Whitman folders and occasionally I'd find something noteworthy. A few buffalo nickels, a few silver dimes and even an Indian head penny.

I have quite a few of those. The 1850s variety bronze Indian head pennies threw me off a bit. With the US ending production of the penny; I may be able to come to a closure with this collector business. It's for fun, by no means would I consider my penny collection valuable. Im more focused on the quarters at the moment but these rexent American women's series aren't very exciting. Biggest problem is that 90% of my coins tend to be from the Denver mint. Hello anybody got some Philadelphia coins to trade ??

Bottom line .. gold / silver bars will only be as valuable as their market price ( which will continue to rise ) .. gold and silver coins tend to have a higher resale or collector value.

 

[Vicinity]

I like grabbing silver coins, figuring the cost is justifiable because I can resell them later if I need to. Hopefully I'd never need to, which means the coins probably won't actually do anything for me. Hard to imagine a situation where a couple hundred dollars will dig me out of situation. Say there is desperation, i'd be quicker to sell it under its value

They are cool though. I like non-silver eisenhauers dollar coins, the weight and size is neat. If you give one to somebody, they have a really big smile for something that is really worth 1 (maybe 3) dollar

 

[theterminator93]

Yeah, my hobby is passive and it comes in spurts. I am behind; I was current up until 2015 or so then I went on hiatus for a while. Lately I've just been buying the uncirculated sets from the mint directly. For the longest time as a kid I was OBSESSED with the 1943 copper penny.

I don't think the recent quarters are any good either. The American Innovation set looks interesting though I haven't got any of them. I had one of those giant 50-state quarters maps that folded in half with a slot in each state for each quarter. I had been religiously collecting each state as it came out. Theeeeeen my brother stole them (and many other coins I had at that time) from me and used them for drug money, claiming it was an "ex friend" who swiped them. Yeah, right.

 

[Vicinity]

I remember the first time I saw the Iowa effigy mounds quarter. My first thought was "what the hell is this" and then I showed it to my bartender who had a similar reaction

 

[dDUBb]

Theeeeeen my brother stole them (and many other coins I had at that time) from me and used them for drug money

$12.50 worth of meth ..

 

[Trunk Monkey]

 

[Vicinity]

sold 5% of sofi shares. Anyone else selling or buying them recently

 

[dDUBb]

Why did you sell SOFI ? They've been on the up and up ..

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I sold EWY last week. It's a South Korean ETF with about 22% Exposure to SAMSUNG. I'm consolidating my portfolio and raising cash right now.

 

[Vicinity]

Why did you sell SOFI ? They've been on the up and up ..

A little buying power in case something goes on sale. Trying to avoid putting money into the swing trade account. Maybe thats the antithesis. What's driving Sofis gain? I think it was a green light to play with crypto

 

[Trunk Monkey]

A little buying power in case something goes on sale. Trying to avoid putting money into the swing trade account. Maybe thats the antithesis. What's driving Sofis gain? I think it was a green light to play with crypto

The cork is off of NVDA too.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Opened a position in Oscar Health (OSCR) Today @ $16.80

 

[Trunk Monkey]

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Opened a position in OSCR this week.

 

[gunn]

Word of advice for all you folks with parents who are getting older: even if your life is getting busier w/ kids and whatnot, sit down with your parents and begin discussions on how to plan for management of their assets NOW (before they need it).
- Earlier this year, I worked with my parents to setup a trust to allow transfer of their assets w/o having to go through probate (which can be super expensive in some states like CA and a PITA in others). It also set me up with medical and durable POA so I can make decisions on their behalf.
- My mom was a CPA and worked as an accountant for her whole life so while I was low-key worried about how she was managing her finances, she'd been doing it for my parents for 50+ years so I wasn't super worried. Well, it was one of those things that "worked until it didn't"; she found it hard to concentrate and taxes weren't getting filed. My parents/friends always preferred to visit me in SF so I had no reason to fly back to TX for 7+ years.
- My dad asked me to come out this past 4th of July so I cut my visit to my MIL short (my wife/kid went ahead) and planned to spend 4 days sorting out paperwork. It turned out that I needed every bit of those 4 days to go through the 5+ file cabinets along with papers stacked up randomly around the house and filed in multiple desks. It was exhausting looking for the peanuts in elephant shit. I scanned what I needed, filed the necessary stuff in a single cabinet of ONE file cabinet, and the rest ended up filling half a commercial dumpster or went to a professional shredder (9+ bankers boxes).
- My dad is now focused on taking my mom to a senior center to get more adult interaction (he hangs out with his buddies), I still have a bit more work (EVERY BANK has a slightly different procedure for validating the POA as they dealt with 12+ banks and most people -- but not all -- are sympathetic)., I can sleep easier now that I'm actively reducing the # of banks/CCs/etc. I'm dealing with, setup e-statements which go to a new email address, and my parents can just focus on living their lives vs managing their real estate/paying bills/etc.
- I'm also glad that financially, there's enough to take care of them. I know this is a LOT harder if the child/children have to help their parents financially.

Lessons learned
- Warning signs: my mom printed EVERYTHING or SAVED everything financial related. When my mom asked me for another laser toner cartridge, I should have taken that as a red flag (who uses one up, anyway?)
- Clone your parents google profile on your device. Old people forget passwords and reset them all the time. Therefore, enable yourself with access to get the latest logins.
- Setup e-statements, billing notifications, and auto-pay yourself. My mom did it mostly successfully, but honestly she paid more late fees in the last 1.5 years than in the previous 45. This always bugged her in the past and therefore (since she taught me all of this) it bugs me as well.
- Its sad to see how many services prey on old people. For some reason, with their last HVAC install, they had talked her into a monthly maintenance plan at $40/mo. They paid $480 over a year and didn't get shit (I don't think they even got the filters swapped).
- Now, I know not every family is as open with finances as my own BUT you can pitch it as another pair of eyes to help them monitor their finances. You can still setup POA so that if something bad does happen (car accident, etc). you can step in immediately and help while one/both are incapacitated. Dig your well now before you are thirsty.
- Ever try to do 2FA (read these 6 digits from a text message while on the phone) from another state when your parents can barely use the phone? Adding your number as a 2FA option helps. Don't even get me started with "click this link and take pictures of your ID/selfie" that some banks require. That necessitates calling a friend to help them out.

Next Steps
- This WILL be hard. However, doing this when your parents can assist in getting things setup (from simply sharing logins and setting up POA all the way to full financial management like I'm doing for mom/dad) and putting together a spreadsheet to document all of their bank accts, bills, doctors, and other necessary details.
- My MIL is a few years younger than my parents and always pushed back on our offers of help; I chalk it to a bit of WASP-iness (my wife is adopted) but after visiting my parents, we quickly realized (and she did too) that she needs help as well. Her tracking system is that if someone mails her a notification (Auto registration is due), she'll take care of it but there wasn't a tracking. This is why she was driving around with plates that expired in 2023.
- Just before we left (and we got the registration sorted), she admitted she needed help. Some geriatric social media (I'm guessing its "The Facebook") recommended a Next of Kin box. She had put one together which is merely a bankers box with some worksheets which are supposed to tell us where assets are and who the dog's vet is. We politely explained that this does us little good when its a) always out of date and b) in another state. While her finances were much simpler, I ended up scanning everything necessary to build a more modern (and backed up online) spreadsheet documenting her details.
- Things I found with her (besides the registration F-up): several of her bills were set to bill monthly and would charge $2-6/payment for the privilege. She has enough to pay the bills off annually so this feels like another nickel-and-dime the old people thing. Her auto insurance felt high and didn't seem to be optimized for her needs (mileage too high, liability cap too low for the single riskiest activity she does, different company from her homeowners). She also didn't have an accountant but instead relied on some old neighbor who was an enrolled agent with H&R block. This clown, despite getting the prior tax returns, somehow forgot to take in depreciation when filing taxes which included her rental property. This is literally one of the most basic things to deduct (and ask about if its missing) when dealing with rental property.

Sigh. I've fully joined the sandwich generation. No one likes being here (taking care of minor children and aging parents) but you gotta do it. In commiserating with friends who are of the same age/stage in life as me, its always easier to do this NOW than later. One told me he needed to take the FLMA and spent nearly 3 months clearing out his mom's house when she passed so in comparison, this last trip to my parents was a walk in the park.

For those of you here who are older, i would encourage you to reach out to your kids (if they aren't fuckups) and give them visibility so it will be easier for them to step in when its finally necessary. Even before you kick it, my parents are enjoying the whole idea that they don't have to worry about this stuff anymore since they essentially have a "family office" (aka me), to take care of their shit and they can now focus on social things (which are equally important as you age).

PS. make sure your parents/elderly relations get DAILY social interaction beyond just their spouse and wear their hearing aids. Both of these are HUGE factors in why my mom's mental acuity declined in the past few years. Without constant stimulation, the brain weakens like any other muscle.

PSS. Among my parents investments was in some pipeline they bought a share in from their brokerage that generated a Schedule-K1, the same paperwork I get for having interest in a private business. My mom's share of the profits in 2024 in this investment as per the K1? $4. Fuck that extra paperwork. I sold that immediately. Such a small stake is not worth the aggravation and/or additional tax filing costs.

 

[CDsDontBurn]

@gunn , How old are your parents and your MIL, if you don't mind answering?

They sound several years retired.

 

[gunn]

@gunn , How old are your parents and your MIL, if you don't mind answering?

They sound several years retired.

Not at all 70s and early 80s. Depending on their health/activity levels, I would encourage this for ALL of your relatives 65+

 

[dDUBb]

My grandma smoked and drank beer her whole life .. she ended up living to 100.

 

[Generalee0527]

Word of advice for all you folks with parents who are getting older: even if your life is getting busier w/ kids and whatnot, sit down with your parents and begin discussions on how to plan for management of their assets NOW (before they need it).
- Earlier this year, I worked with my parents to setup a trust to allow transfer of their assets w/o having to go through probate (which can be super expensive in some states like CA and a PITA in others). It also set me up with medical and durable POA so I can make decisions on their behalf.
- My mom was a CPA and worked as an accountant for her whole life so while I was low-key worried about how she was managing her finances, she'd been doing it for my parents for 50+ years so I wasn't super worried. Well, it was one of those things that "worked until it didn't"; she found it hard to concentrate and taxes weren't getting filed. My parents/friends always preferred to visit me in SF so I had no reason to fly back to TX for 7+ years.
- My dad asked me to come out this past 4th of July so I cut my visit to my MIL short (my wife/kid went ahead) and planned to spend 4 days sorting out paperwork. It turned out that I needed every bit of those 4 days to go through the 5+ file cabinets along with papers stacked up randomly around the house and filed in multiple desks. It was exhausting looking for the peanuts in elephant shit. I scanned what I needed, filed the necessary stuff in a single cabinet of ONE file cabinet, and the rest ended up filling half a commercial dumpster or went to a professional shredder (9+ bankers boxes).
- My dad is now focused on taking my mom to a senior center to get more adult interaction (he hangs out with his buddies), I still have a bit more work (EVERY BANK has a slightly different procedure for validating the POA as they dealt with 12+ banks and most people -- but not all -- are sympathetic)., I can sleep easier now that I'm actively reducing the # of banks/CCs/etc. I'm dealing with, setup e-statements which go to a new email address, and my parents can just focus on living their lives vs managing their real estate/paying bills/etc.
- I'm also glad that financially, there's enough to take care of them. I know this is a LOT harder if the child/children have to help their parents financially.

Lessons learned
- Warning signs: my mom printed EVERYTHING or SAVED everything financial related. When my mom asked me for another laser toner cartridge, I should have taken that as a red flag (who uses one up, anyway?)
- Clone your parents google profile on your device. Old people forget passwords and reset them all the time. Therefore, enable yourself with access to get the latest logins.
- Setup e-statements, billing notifications, and auto-pay yourself. My mom did it mostly successfully, but honestly she paid more late fees in the last 1.5 years than in the previous 45. This always bugged her in the past and therefore (since she taught me all of this) it bugs me as well.
- Its sad to see how many services prey on old people. For some reason, with their last HVAC install, they had talked her into a monthly maintenance plan at $40/mo. They paid $480 over a year and didn't get shit (I don't think they even got the filters swapped).
- Now, I know not every family is as open with finances as my own BUT you can pitch it as another pair of eyes to help them monitor their finances. You can still setup POA so that if something bad does happen (car accident, etc). you can step in immediately and help while one/both are incapacitated. Dig your well now before you are thirsty.
- Ever try to do 2FA (read these 6 digits from a text message while on the phone) from another state when your parents can barely use the phone? Adding your number as a 2FA option helps. Don't even get me started with "click this link and take pictures of your ID/selfie" that some banks require. That necessitates calling a friend to help them out.

Next Steps
- This WILL be hard. However, doing this when your parents can assist in getting things setup (from simply sharing logins and setting up POA all the way to full financial management like I'm doing for mom/dad) and putting together a spreadsheet to document all of their bank accts, bills, doctors, and other necessary details.
- My MIL is a few years younger than my parents and always pushed back on our offers of help; I chalk it to a bit of WASP-iness (my wife is adopted) but after visiting my parents, we quickly realized (and she did too) that she needs help as well. Her tracking system is that if someone mails her a notification (Auto registration is due), she'll take care of it but there wasn't a tracking. This is why she was driving around with plates that expired in 2023.
- Just before we left (and we got the registration sorted), she admitted she needed help. Some geriatric social media (I'm guessing its "The Facebook") recommended a Next of Kin box. She had put one together which is merely a bankers box with some worksheets which are supposed to tell us where assets are and who the dog's vet is. We politely explained that this does us little good when its a) always out of date and b) in another state. While her finances were much simpler, I ended up scanning everything necessary to build a more modern (and backed up online) spreadsheet documenting her details.
- Things I found with her (besides the registration F-up): several of her bills were set to bill monthly and would charge $2-6/payment for the privilege. She has enough to pay the bills off annually so this feels like another nickel-and-dime the old people thing. Her auto insurance felt high and didn't seem to be optimized for her needs (mileage too high, liability cap too low for the single riskiest activity she does, different company from her homeowners). She also didn't have an accountant but instead relied on some old neighbor who was an enrolled agent with H&R block. This clown, despite getting the prior tax returns, somehow forgot to take in depreciation when filing taxes which included her rental property. This is literally one of the most basic things to deduct (and ask about if its missing) when dealing with rental property.

Sigh. I've fully joined the sandwich generation. No one likes being here (taking care of minor children and aging parents) but you gotta do it. In commiserating with friends who are of the same age/stage in life as me, its always easier to do this NOW than later. One told me he needed to take the FLMA and spent nearly 3 months clearing out his mom's house when she passed so in comparison, this last trip to my parents was a walk in the park.

For those of you here who are older, i would encourage you to reach out to your kids (if they aren't fuckups) and give them visibility so it will be easier for them to step in when its finally necessary. Even before you kick it, my parents are enjoying the whole idea that they don't have to worry about this stuff anymore since they essentially have a "family office" (aka me), to take care of their shit and they can now focus on social things (which are equally important as you age).

PS. make sure your parents/elderly relations get DAILY social interaction beyond just their spouse and wear their hearing aids. Both of these are HUGE factors in why my mom's mental acuity declined in the past few years. Without constant stimulation, the brain weakens like any other muscle.

PSS. Among my parents investments was in some pipeline they bought a share in from their brokerage that generated a Schedule-K1, the same paperwork I get for having interest in a private business. My mom's share of the profits in 2024 in this investment as per the K1? $4. Fuck that extra paperwork. I sold that immediately. Such a small stake is not worth the aggravation and/or additional tax filing costs.

@gunn, Many Thanks for the advice. I wish my mom had not been so stubborn to believe she wasn't going to die (Colon Cancer- APR 2025) as she had always managed the household finances for as long as I learned what bills were. I am oldest of 4 but live 6 hours away nad the last 18 years me and mine had been at odds w/ family. Covid gave me an opportunity to try to resolve but no dice. Now Dad is struggling. Canceling debit cards, phone accounts and wondering why is satellite tv no longer working..... Unfortunately communication with any of them is on a whole different level.

Tried to setup a better flip phone (bigger keys, flip phone w/ loud volume, reputable build-Nokia) but when attempting to port out his number no one knows a damn thing about the current acct # or access pin making it impossible. Now who was the dimwit who gave him the burner phone to start with.

Went this last weekend to help w/ some clean out and went to order the headstone and wow, new check register with no balance so I have no clue WTF is going on. I suggested a visit to bank to give someone access to monitor things but NOPE I don't need any help. Honestly I know none of us trust my sister as she forged some checks 15 years ago so there is that. Then there is the need for copies of death certificates and the list continues. Not the least funny that a death leaves such a mess to cleanup. It would be nice is there was an instruction book somewhere.

 

[gunn]

@gunn, Many Thanks for the advice. I wish my mom had not been so stubborn to believe she wasn't going to die (Colon Cancer- APR 2025) as she had always managed the household finances for as long as I learned what bills were. I am oldest of 4 but live 6 hours away nad the last 18 years me and mine had been at odds w/ family. Covid gave me an opportunity to try to resolve but no dice. Now Dad is struggling. Canceling debit cards, phone accounts and wondering why is satellite tv no longer working..... Unfortunately communication with any of them is on a whole different level. Tried to setup a better flip phone (bigger keys, flip phone w/ loud volume, reputable build-Nokia) but when attempting to port out his number no one knows a damn thing about the current acct # or access pin making it impossible. Now who was the dimwit who gave him the burner phone to start with. Went this last weekend to help w/ some clean out and went to order the headstone and wow, new check register with no balance so I have no clue WTF is going own. I suggested a visit to bank to give someone access to monitor things but NOPE I don't need any help. Honestly I know none of us trust my sister as she forged some checks 15 years ago so there is that. Then there is the need for copies of death certificates and the list continues. Not the least funny that a death leaves such a mess to cleanup. It would be nice is there was an instruction book somewhere.

Im sorry you had to go through that and clearly, my experience pales in comparison to what you're dealing with now.

I never felt that I would be missing something by not having siblings and while I can see with some friends that they are a source of strength given the common background, I also see from others that this is a much more complicated thing.

I'm also glad that culturally, in general Asians are much more upfront about finances and money with their children (and pretty much everyone). I would joke that it's not uncommon hear from a friend "this is a nice house, how much did you pay for it?" Whereas among my more waspy friends, it's much less common to talk about money especially between generations. Years ago, my parents were very honest about what they could afford for college and it helped me make decisions based on rationality versus emotions. Later, but still Years ago, one of my friends didn't know if his dad was going to help pay for his wedding until his dad handed him a check at the reception; that caused all sorts of stress IMO unnecessarily (I remember this because it was a daytime wedding and we had gone out later that evening to have a simple dinner and you could tell they were feeling pinched so I paid the bill). I would also encourage this kind of communication with your children at a younger age. explaining that you can't afford what they want versus trying to hide that fact, or even if you can afford all of their toys, imposing artificial scarcity to teach them they can't always have everything they want will not ruin their childhood. I also think teaching kids at an early age about the opportunity cost of things (if you get this, you can't have that, which would you rather have? Or instead of having this now, save the money you can have something nicer in the future) are both good lessons to learn.

My hope is that by having a map of both my MIL and parents finances, it'll be much easier for me and my wife to manage getting them additional assistance and once one of them passes, we can focus on grieving versus all the other adult shit that needs to be taken care of.

Even though businesses exist today to manage finances for people with sufficient wealth as well as to manage transitions between generations, I think this is something that all schools should teach in high school as a component of their financial education (which I don't think really exists). If more people understood the ramifications of their choices and how all of this adult shit works, it would be harder for them to fall prey to things like payday lending, get your paycheck early BS, or bad financial loans.
Of course, our government is disbanding the department of education so good luck with that.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

@gunn I understand completely! I have my own experiences with this. Absolutely the sooner you address these financial concerns the better!

I highly recommend adding your or your wife's name to their accounts as co-owners as well. This makes access, control and transfer upon death much easier than a POA, trust or will. You'll just inherit the account through right of survivorship. This is the approach that I've taken with my parents, although I do also have a durable POA.

Like your mother and her auto-bill "convenience" fees I had a similar issue with Mom's cable. I knew and it took some time to convince my mother after my father passed that she didn't need 3 TV's in the house with 3 cable boxes @ $10 each / month = $360 a year! Including phone, internet and TV her cable bill was over $300 a month or Roughly $3,600 a year for everything! After turning in the boxes and dropping her cable for just her landline phone and internet her bill was reduced to less than $100 a month now.

I found myself in a similar situation in 2007 when my Dad's brother passed away it was a real eye opener. My Mom who always handled my parents finances agreed to let me do a full review of their affairs and it was agreed that we would add my name to their accounts as a co-owner. This would make access, management and right of survivorship ownership of the accounts very easy. As the eldest son and probably the most financially savvy sibling my brother agreed to this. It doesn't hurt that we're on good terms with each other and he trusts me.

When talking with Wells Fargo, where they bank, to add my name to their accounts I discovered that they had like 3 checking accounts, 3 savings accounts, a safe deposit box and an untapped, unused line of credit on the house. I was like WTF do you need all this for? The banker was like, Oh, that's normal. I asked Mom if she agreed to all this and she indicated that the banker had "recommended" all these accounts. I was like no effing way do you need all this. It was just like a year later in September of 2016 that the Wells Fargo multiple account scandal was uncovered and became public. Some of you may remember that scandal. Wells Fargo was fined heavily by the, now neutered, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for what they did by creating thousands of unauthorized accounts and encouraging customers to open multiple - unnecessary - accounts.
BTW, thanks to the current administration for crippling the CFPB. Pfft.

Since then we've got Mom down to one savings account and one checking account. We closed the line of credit and cancelled the safe deposit box.

My mother, who's financial acumen is limited to balancing a check book, refuses to use an ATM or do any online banking. She had left her inheritance in a very, very low yield savings account yielding less than 1% at the bank. I finally convinced her to let me move it to an online account yielding 4%. I initially kept that account in my name only to avoid the 5 year look back rule if needed. She got all pissy about not having her name on the account even though it was for her, and our protection in the even that she would need long term care under Medicaid. So I added her name to the account. In a way it benefits me now that I can split the earned interest that I have to declare from that account with her reducing my tax burden.

Also, while doing this analysis, I discovered that Merrill Edge (Now part of Bank of America) had mismanaged my Father's retirement account. He had accumulated quite a bit of ESOP Wal-Mart stock during his time there. When he retired Merrill convinced my parents to allow them to manage his retirement account. In their financial naiveté my parents agreed. What Merrill then did was criminal. I discovered that they had sold all of his WMT stock and placed the money into high fee front loaded Mutual Funds with fees up to 7%. Not only that but a few years later one of their agents churned his account selling the funds and reinvesting them again into other high fee front load funds. Eventually, after my name was added to that account, I was able to sell these funds and move the money into the market. I'm now slowly drawing down Dad's 401K and moving it into a Cash Management Account for Mom that is now doing quite well. Ironically, I repurchased WMT stock with some of his funds and it's currently the best performing stock in the portfolio. If they'd just left his money in WMT stock he, and my mother, would have been just fine.

Another issue that I discovered was that one of Dad's life insurance policies that he had taken out back in the 1960's still had his parents down as beneficiaries. They were both dead at the time. So, fortunately we were able to update the beneficiaries on that policy before Dad died. Make sure that you know what life insurance they have - if any - and that the beneficiaries on your parents life insurance policies are up to date and if the accounts are up to date on premiums, etc.

We've also since then added my brother and my names to the deed on my parents house to avoid any issued and we'll inherit the house through right of survivorship. We've drawn up POA's for Mom and Dad (although Dad passed not long after that).

It's so important to keep up with your aging parents finances. Especially if they're not financially savvy.

 

[gunn]

@gunn I understand completely! I have my own experiences with this. Absolutely the sooner you address these financial concerns the better!

I highly recommend adding your or your wife's name to their accounts as well. This makes access, control and transfer upon death much easier than a POA, trust or will. You'll just inherit the account through right of survivorship. This is the approach that I've taken with my parents, although I do also have a durable POA.

Like your mother and her auto-bill "convenience" fees I had a similar issue with Mom's cable. I knew and it took some time to convince my mother after my father passed that she didn't need 3 TV's in the house with 3 cable boxes @ $10 each / month = $360 a year! Including phone, internet and TV her cable bill was over $300 a month or Roughly $3,600 a year for everything! After turning in the boxes and dropping her cable for just her landline phone and internet her bill was reduced to less than $100 a month now.

I found myself in a similar situation in 2007 when my Dad's brother passed away it was a real eye opener. My Mom who always handled my parents finances agreed to let me do a full review of their affairs and it was agreed that we would add my name to their accounts as a co-owner. This would make access, management and right of survivorship ownership of the accounts very easy. As the eldest son and probably the most financially savvy sibling my brother agreed to this. It doesn't hurt that we're on good terms with each other and he trusts me.

When talking with Wells Fargo, where they bank, to add my name to their accounts I discovered that they had like 3 checking accounts, 3 savings accounts, a safe deposit box and an untapped, unused line of credit on the house. I was like WTF do you need all this for? The banker was like, Oh, that's normal. I asked Mom if she agreed to all this and she indicated that the banker had "recommended" all these accounts. I was like no effing way do you need all this. It was just like a year later in September of 2016 that the Wells Fargo multiple account scandal was uncovered and became public. Some of you may remember that scandal. Wells Fargo was fined heavily by the, now neutered, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) for that. BTW, thanks to the current adminstration for crippling the CFPB. Pfft.

Since then we've got Mom down to one savings account, one checking account, closed the line of credit and cancelled the safe deposit box.

My mother, who's financial acumen is limited to balancing a check book, refuses to use an ATM or do any online banking. She had left her inheritance in a very, very low yield savings account yielding less than 1% at the bank. I finally convinced her to let me move it to an online account yielding 4%. I initially kept that account in my name only to avoid the 5 year look back rule if needed. She got all pissy about not having her name on the account even though it was for her, and our protection in the even that she would need long term care under Medicaid. So I added her name to the account. In a way it benefits me now that I can split the earned interest that I have to declare from that account with her reducing my tax burden.

Also, while doing this analysis, I discovered that Merrill Edge (Now part of Bank of America) had mismanaged my Father's retirement account. He had accumulated quite a bit of ESOP Wal-Mart stock during his time there. When he retired Merrill convinced my parents to allow them to manage his retirement account. In their financial naiveté my parents agreed. What Merrill then did was criminal. I discovered that they had sold all of his WMT stock and placed the money into high fee front loaded Mutual Funds with fees up to 7%. Not only that but a few years later one of their agents churned his account selling the funds and reinvesting them again into other high fee front load funds. Eventually, after my name was added to that account, I was able to sell these funds and move the money into the market. I'm now slowly drawing down Dad's 401K and moving it into a Cash Management Account for Mom that is now doing quite well. Ironically, I repurchased WMT stock with some of his funds and it's currently the best performing stock in the portfolio. If they'd just left his money in WMT stock he, and my mother, would have been just fine.

Another issue that I discovered was that one of Dad's life insurance policies that he had taken out back in the 1960's still had his parents down as beneficiaries. They were both dead at the time. So, fortunately were were able to update the beneficiaries on that policy before Dad died. Make sure that the beneficiaries on your parents life insurane policies are up to datey you know what insurance they have and if the accounts are up to date on premiums, etc.

We've also since then added my brother and my names to the deed on my parents house to avoid any issued and we'll inherit the house through right of survivorship. We've drawn up POA's for Mom and Dad (although Dad passed not long after that).

It's so important to keep up with your aging parents finances. Especially if they're not financially savvy.

The more I talk to my friends about this the more shenanigans I hear about old people being taken advantage of.

I'm always low-key worried about WF as my MIL uses them but thankfully, neither side has every used an actively managed financial planner/scumbag.

Reviewing my mom's stock portfolio is on the todo list. I know there's lots of random stuff as that was her obsession for a few years.

What's curious is one of the bank people I spoke to said she had a hard time getting her parents on board: her mom was worried about the loss of Independence and her dad felt that any kind of financial planning was tantamount to prepare for your own death. My suggested sales pitch was to say that please preparations will help us make their life easier today and not just plan for when they're gone. That seems to have worked for my mother-in-law.

 

[gunn]

Its been 3 weeks since I flew back to Austin and dealt with my parents finances. I'm not a financial planner, nor am I YOUR financial planner, but here are some key lessons learned in sorting out stuff for my parents that might benefit some of you should your parents be in the aging situation

* Not every parent is willing to hand over the reins to their finances like my mom & dad. I cant fix a trust issue or irrationality (if I set this up, I'm going to die tomorrow), but for folks like a MIL who are worried about independence, the most effective tactic I've found is to offer to "help be a second set of eyes" to make sure bills are paid and things like auto registration, insurance, etc are taken care of. Besides uncovering her (lack of) current auto registration, I also found random charges on her CC, stupid things she signed up for "because the other folks in her (retirement) neighborhood had it aka scams like Lifelock", and mistakes made by others (not taking depreciation on her rental property). An hour or so of my effort saved her thousands. The first step is NOT control over the finances but visibility (aka where is the money). That will make what comes after much easier.

* Old people forget passwords and tend to change them a lot. One quick way to stay current is to login to their safari/google/whatever profile on YOUR laptop. This way if they change their password in google chrome, you'll have a current access to it.

* Add your fingerprint to their phone, your phone/email as a 2FA option, and your email address as a recovery address for every account they will let you on: banks and bills being the most important.

* As mentioned above, go through their bank and credit card statements for the last year. Look for odd charges (like rewards program subscriptions), scams like Lifelock, and maintenace/scam programs for plumbing and HVAC. Double check things like newspaper subs, cable, internet, and netflix to make sure they aren't getting scammed here, either.

* Lock down their credit reports. THIS should be the new normal for everyone (not just old people). Only unlock when needed. My mom taught me how to churn CC's for bonuses. That works great... until you cant remember what you had for lunch yesterday.
https://www.experian.com/help/credit-freeze/
https://lockandalert.equifax.com/member-center/portal/
https://service.transunion.com/dss/login.page?PLACE_CTA=TransUnion:PHP:Login

* As they become more willing to secede control, setup a new email address and send all bills/bank statements as e-statements to this new email address. If your mom loves keeping paper (like mine), this is SUPER IMPORTANT.

* If they have assets (aka Real Estate), and especially if they are in California, setup a trust. In some states, going through probate can be cheap (a few hundred $). CA laws are written largely by lawyers so the COURT mandated costs, without a trust, to pass on things like property is CRAZY (starts @ 4% for the first $100K and slides down to 2%). Literally tens of thousands to pass on a $1M home even if you owe $800k because you died the day after closing. How they want to split it up amongst children is up to them, but having something in place will prevent fights in the future.

* Once you have a trust, make sure the beneficiaries are setup. I'm slogging through this now because my parents didn't do this after they executed their trust. Top item is reregistering the real estate with the county tax appraisal office in the name of the trust vs just the parents but its also important that the beneficiaries for various retirement accts is setup correctly as well. Primary should be the surviving spouse and Contingent Beneficiary (aka the backup) is the revocable trust. Every bank has a different form/procedure and this SUCKS.

* Don't forget Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs). After a certain age (72-75 depending on how old you are), the govt requires you to take a certain amount (3%) OUT of every tax deferred acct (so 401Ks and IRAs, not ROTH 401Ks and ROTH IRAs). The penalty is 25% (or 10% if corrected within 2 years). Some financial institutions do this automatically (remind you and set it up for automatic payment). Others not so much. Seeing as how I'm not 70+, I kind of heard this was a thing but it was YET ANOTHER item for me to verify and fix for my parents as not all of their accts had automatic RMDs setup. Sigh.

Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) Rules Explained | Human Interest

humaninterest.com

* As they are willing to give up more control, setup durable POA with the various banks/financial instituations so they'll actually talk to you directly. Again, every bank has a different procedure and this SUCKS.

* Try to simplify your parents financial lives: one or two credit cards, one bank acct, one savings acct, one brokerage. All RMDs, other income, and bank stuff should feed into that ONE bank acct. If they want to ladder CDs, they can do so at that one bank even if it means leaving a little money on the table (chasing CD interest rates is part of the reason my mom's finances were such a PITA to sort).

* Automate all payments. Even if they say they did it, check to make sure it was setup correctly (I found this to be necessary for my mom who made mistakes).

* Once you do that, you'll also probably want to get your medical POA filed with the various doctors. I haven't done that yet.

* Find and document the safety deposit boxes. Make sure their rental fees are paid. Find out where the keys are stored.

Final note: its easier to get ahead of these issues now vs waiting until they pass and pick up the pieces. The latter is probably extremely important if there's more than one of you children and NOT everyone is equally responsible/successful. Getting ahead of the issue will prevent future family strife.