Hard / Difficult Steering at Low Speeds

CDsDontBurn

CDsDontBurn

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97 Thunderbird Sport
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I'm wondering about my steering at low speeds possibly being an issue on Gold Bird.

At low speeds of about 10mph or slowly, parking lot speeds basically, steering has always been difficult since purchase back in July but I always thought it was normal for this platform until my wife mentioned how difficult it is to steer Gold Bird.

So my question is, besides replace PS fluid, what else can I check for?

And as far as PS fluid goes, I know ATF is the best fluid to use, but which type is it again? Mercron VI? And how much fluid should I grab for full replacement of fluid, 1qt?

The pump doesn't make any noises FWIW.
 
I have complained a few times about heavier steering than my personal preference. Yours being a V8, you should have the speed adaptive steering which could be a culprit (though it should default to maximum assist if there's a malfunction).

My first question would be regarding the condition of the ball joints. If they are good, from personal experience I can say that a few fluid flushes did provide some improvement for me. I have tried various fluids and additives:
  • Mercon (sans V):
    Was the best in terms of quietness and assist; my most recent fluid.
  • Mercon V:
    Was fine.
  • MaxLife:
    Was noisier than before, though potentially a bit lighter. (I do use this fluid in my transmission without issue.)
  • Bar's Leaks Power Steering Repair (mixed with Mercon V):
    I had no leaks; I just bought this to improve quietness. It worked well, with steering slightly lighter, but straight Mercon works just as well.
  • Seafoam Trans Tune (mixed with Mercon V):
    No discernable improvement.
Fluid capacity is in the manual; should be less than a quart.

I never tried Rislone Steering Stop Whine, which may be a good product to test even if noise isn't the main concern. However, at this point I am happy with old-fashioned Mercon (which Walmart sells labeled as SuperTech High Mileage Transmission Fluid).

My steering is never truly heavy. It's just distinctly heavier than say a CrownVic or any modern electric steering. On the plus side, at country road speeds (35-45 mph), the weight is absolutely perfect to follow a curvy path.
 
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Cool. I'll grab a bottle of Mercron V and take care of it on my upcoming oil change interval.

Is 1qt enough to flush (drain and fill) the entire PS system? Or should I grab 2qts for that? I'll be turning wheels lock to lock when I do this to get air out and ensure good fluid mixture with old before D&F again.
 
Do you have wider than stock tires on there? I noticed a significant difference in the steering when I increased tire size.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
Cool. I'll grab a bottle of Mercron V
Click to expand...

While replacing the old, potentially  very old, fluid in there currently can only be beneficial, I repeat that I did not see any improvements with just Mercon V, even after multiple fluid changes. I only saw improvements with either Mercon V mixed with Bar's Leaks or with Mercon (sans V) aka Dex/Merc.

CDsDontBurn said:
Is 1qt enough to flush (drain and fill) the entire PS system? Or should I grab 2qts for that? I'll be turning wheels lock to lock when I do this to get air out and ensure good fluid mixture with old before D&F again.
Click to expand...

I can only speak for the V6 system, though I'm guessing the V8 is similar (?). I never disconnected any lines; I feared I could do more harm than good messing with those old connections.

I used a turkey baster with a small hose attached to the tip which reaches all the way down into the reservoir.

Wheels in the air, engine off, turning the steering wheel side to side repeatedly, this method removes at least two thirds of the fluid. Then I fill up, start the engine, turn the steering wheel side to side again until it operates smoothly.

The workshop manual describes a further process to remove air by way of a vacuum pump. However, I never bothered getting one.
 
I've always hated the excessive boost our cars have. we have an evo variable boost system, that rolls off boost above ~15 mbh, using a valve to restrict flow. It's why we have a steering fluid cooler.
Matt and I started a project for an electric steering pump, to reduce boost further, mostly derailed by my stroke.
 
Grog6 said:
excessive boost .
Click to expand...

Always a matter of perspective and use case I guess.

I owned an '06 Crown Vic followed by a dozen all-new cars with mostly electric power steering, so I'm overall used to  more boost at standstill.

My first car in the US, a 2000 Continental, allowed you to select steering assist from three levels. I always set it to the lightest; the other two felt artificial to me. If anything, the heavy setting helped going straight on very long freeway stretches. And that car didn't like corners anyway.

With the Thunderbird being a daily driver, I love the feel on curvy country roads, but at standstill I'd prefer more assist. And not having the EVO in the V6, that's just less stuff to break, just like not having ABS, power seats, SATC, etc.
 
Any assistance was good when I had a tendon injury last year, and the Mark was easier on wrist. On the other hand, having rented cars for some construction site visits, the steering was always a snooze
 
Kidd-7 said:
Do you have wider than stock tires on there? I noticed a significant difference in the steering when I increased tire size.
Click to expand...

Stock to the car, no, but they are stock to the MN12 platform.

I bought it with the stock 15" wheels using the 205/75-15 tires, and swapped over the 16" wheels using the 225/65-16 tires. Steering was pretty hard then too with the 15" wheels.

1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I used a turkey baster with a small hose attached to the tip which reaches all the way down into the reservoir.

Wheels in the air, engine off, turning the steering wheel side to side repeatedly, this method removes at least two thirds of the fluid. Then I fill up, start the engine, turn the steering wheel side to side again until it operates smoothly.
Click to expand...

I plan on removing the hose from the bottom of the reservoir and dumping the old fluid into a bottle. I just need to know which hose is the fluid exit hose from the reservoir. It's just way faster and more efficient than using a turkey baster.

Wheels will be up off the ground when I do this, of course.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
I plan on removing the hose from the bottom of the reservoir and dumping the old fluid into a bottle.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be my preference, too, because it  feels more professional. Unfortunately, on the V6 that return hose is so awkwardly positioned under the reservoir that removing it is impractical. I once considered disconnecting the hose from the steel line just forward of the K-member, but I didn't get past moving the clamp; the hose itself did not budge, and I was afraid to damage a 30-year-old hose which to this day is leak-free.

CDsDontBurn said:
It's just way faster and more efficient than using a turkey baster.
Click to expand...

I'm not even certain if that's true. If you disconnect the hose directly under the reservoir, you may still have to empty it first to avoid a mess. Plus you spend that time disconnecting/connecting hoses...

Sure, the turkey baster requires repeated small-increment fluid removal steps, which may seem tedious...but it gets the job done. With a thin hose attached to the tip of that turkey baster, I can get to the very bottom of the reservoir.
 
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I destroyed a steering pump, doing the stainless braided line mod. If the fitting at the pump goes too deep, it eats the pump. It was full of metal shards. It had to come off, lol.
Lazarus has the 'handling package,' (0152} maybe? it's swaybar is a bitch to get a filter over, much worse than the other cars.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
Cool. I'll grab a bottle of Mercron V and take care of it on my upcoming oil change interval.

Is 1qt enough to flush (drain and fill) the entire PS system? Or should I grab 2qts for that? I'll be turning wheels lock to lock when I do this to get air out and ensure good fluid mixture with old before D&F again.
Click to expand...
Didn't know which one to reply too but I wanted to tag onto 97thunderbirds comments, I also added a half bottle of rislone power steering repair and noticed an improvement in sound, I used mercon (not v) as Canadian tire still has a cheap and reliable source of it. I don't expect you to use it but I wanted to put in another good word for it as some products harm rather than help but rislone (bars leaks in the US) works and doesn't cause any harm. I plan to use the other half bottle and do another fluid change in the summer as I didn't get all the old fluid I wanted out
 
What I do to flush the 4.6 system is disconnect the return line that goes up to reservoir and cap the bung on the reservoir off, and then run that hose to a drain pan. You can drain most of the old fluid in the reservoir here while you’re at it. From here top it off with new fluid, keep your new fluid on standby and start the engine rotating the wheel lock to lock, top off, check the color of fluid going spewing into the pan and repeat. Once it’s pink(assuming you’re using ATF, which is one reason I prefer ATF here actually) it’s done.

I’d grab 3-4 quarts just in case, you shouldn’t need that much but last time I did it I used every ounce of three when I finished. This is a good reminder, I really need to do this, I only topped it off when I refilled it and it’s been misbehaving (probably an air pocket but the old ATF left in it was clearly burned)
 
1997ThunderbirdLXV6 said:
I'm not even certain if that's true. If you disconnect the hose directly under the reservoir, you may still have to empty it first to avoid a mess. Plus you spend that time disconnecting/connecting hoses...
Click to expand...

And that's what I plan on doing. And if hoses need replaced because they're old and brittle, then they get replaced, not a big deal.

Jae 'Bird said:
I also added a half bottle of rislone power steering repair and noticed an improvement in sound
Click to expand...

And see, that's the thing. Like I said in my OP, my steering doesn't make any noise at all.

Will it make noise after I open it up though is the question 😬.

XR7-4.6 said:
I’d grab 3-4 quarts just in case, you shouldn’t need that much but last time I did it I used every ounce of three when I finished.
Click to expand...

So 3-4 bottles of Mercron V?
 
CDsDontBurn said:
Will it make noise after I open it up though is the question 😬.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking, if you go by the Ford workshop manual, if the system ingests any air during the process, you're supposed to evacuate it using a vacuum pump, as air in the system can indeed cause noise.

In practice, on the V6, I have found that any initial noise, whooshing sounds, or vibration disappears rapidly after running the engine for just a few seconds and turning the steering wheel (wheels still in the air). Then turn the engine off, verify fluid level and top off, repeat...

Works for me. Proceed at your own risk.

The only  increase in noise I observed was with MaxLife. Mercon V produced no change of any kind.

My logic would be: these steering systems were designed to run with Mercon (Dex/Merc). Whatever changes exist between Mercon and Mercon V were implemented solely to address transmission longevity; steering wasn't part of the consideration. That's just what a complete amateur gathers from spending too much time on the internet...
 
Whenever I change the engine oil I use a vacuum pump to empty the PS reservoir and fill it back up. I've always used whatever ATF that is on hand, nothing specific. As long as it's clean it's probably fine. The system is silent and smooth in mine
 
Agreed, I use what I have on hand. Power steering isn’t nearly as picky about fluid selection as a transmission. I used to use Mercon V when I still had an auto(and extra quarts on hand being shareable) but now I use any Mercon or equivalent I find on the shelf with power steering
 
Alright. I'll be picking up a couple of bottles for this weekend. Hopefully weather and everything else lines up to allow me to do my overdue oil change and all this other maintenance.
 
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