Tesla Cybertruck threatening F-150 Lightning sales

Trunk Monkey

Trunk Monkey

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I don’t see an impact on Lightning sales as sales are nearly identical for both quarters. Ford die hards will continue to buy Fords regardless.

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Aren't basically all car sales down, anyway? Pretty normal for newer models to fade off in sales after a while.

I walked by a new one this morning, charcoal in color, so everything matched. They should have done something to make the grille more realistic and but some better wheels on it. Other than that it's much better looking than the Silverado/Sierra EV, which is a damned Avalanche wannabe. And Cybertruck is just a fad. ( At least I hope so)
 
I've seen some articles (headlines, mostly) that have said Cybertruck sales are tanking - they're removing badges from higher-end models to sell them as the cheaper model, the line's been idled, and there's no wait for them anymore.
 
Cybertrucks are a fashion statement for morons, the Lightning is a loss leader for draconian EV regulation nobody wants. This competition is about as meaningful to the “truck” market as the Harlem Globe Trotters vs. the Washington Generals are relevant to basketball standings.
 
Zep5.0 said:
Aren't basically all car sales down, anyway? Pretty normal for newer models to fade off in sales after a while.

I walked by a new one this morning, charcoal in color, so everything matched. They should have done something to make the grille more realistic and but some better wheels on it. Other than that it's much better looking than the Silverado/Sierra EV, which is a damned Avalanche wannabe. And Cybertruck is just a fad. ( At least I hope so)
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From what I have been watching, even though car prices are coming down, they are still WAY TOO EXPENSIVE for what you are getting. $100k for a pick up truck? Seriously?

I can see why Ford is having sales issues. Why buy a Bronco for $80k or more? Just rediculous.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Cybertrucks are a fashion statement for morons, the Lightning is a loss leader for draconian EV regulation nobody wants. This competition is about as meaningful to the “truck” market as the Harlem Globe Trotters vs. the Washington Generals are relevant to basketball standings.
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The Cybertruck - the ugliest truck along with the Nissan Cube car, van, SUV?... whatever it is. First time I saw a Cube, I could not stop laughing and then I wanted to throw up.
 
White Lincoln said:
The Cybertruck - the ugliest truck along with the Nissan Cube car, van, SUV?... whatever it is. First time I saw a Cube, I could not stop laughing and then I wanted to throw up.
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The Juke makes the Cube look like the Mona Lisa by comparison, especially the convertible, oof! 🤮

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KevinVarnes said:
I never understood why that Juke was not more maligned than it is, but I guess it didn't sell enough for people to even realize it was a real car.
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Or we were still awestruck at how ugly the Aztek really was
 
XR7-4.6 said:
The Juke makes the Cube look like the Mona Lisa by comparison, especially the convertible, oof! 🤮

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We're judging looks by shitty AI renderings of nonexistent sub-models now?

The Juke doesn't need any assistance (or hindrance) from AI.

At least it's more accurate than an AI Thunderbird though.
 
White Lincoln said:
Mona Lisa was NOT attractive... Some say it was a "selfie"... :p
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Would.
Zep5.0 said:
Or we were still awestruck at how ugly the Aztek really was
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The Aztek actually kind of blends in with half of the current crossover SUVs in the market at this point, it just had the unfortunate timing of being ugly before ugly was fashionable in car design.


Irv said:
We're judging looks by shitty AI renderings of nonexistent sub-models now?

The Juke doesn't need any assistance (or hindrance) from AI.

At least it's more accurate than an AI Thunderbird though.
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Arrg AI tricked me! The Murano convertible was the one I was thinking of, I could have sworn I’ve seen a real life Juke convertible. Either way, the Murano was ugly too.
 
Not surprising, comparing the two against each other is apples to oranges.....
The F150 Lightning is *not an impressive vehicle. Ford just took the existing F150 chassis and made an EV drive train fit into it. Every review I have watched finds the range is awful to the point of not being able to do anything a gas truck can. What is the point of the thing? Ford did an awful job.

The Cybertruck is on another level. People can hate on them all they want, but that doesn't change the amount of engineering and impressive technology it has. It's seen as a cool vehicle that stands out like nothing else, and it is a status symbol to have one.
 
Kenz said:
Not surprising, comparing the two against each other is apples to oranges.....
The F150 Lightning is *not an impressive vehicle. Ford just took the existing F150 chassis and made an EV drive train fit into it. Every review I have watched finds the range is awful to the point of not being able to do anything a gas truck can. What is the point of the thing? Ford did an awful job.

The Cybertruck is on another level. People can hate on them all they want, but that doesn't change the amount of engineering and impressive technology it has. It's seen as a cool vehicle that stands out like nothing else, and it is a status symbol to have one.
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🤭
 
My wife said that musk is just abusing his power now that he will be in office and creating this BS about Tesla selling more than Ford. :P
 
My BIL has a Rivian, and likes it so far. I like it more than the other EV offerings, but I'm not spending $85k+ to get the trim I'd what.
 
Wife and I like the PHEV she has, but we both recognize the limitations of it and BEVs. We like having EV-like convenience for in-town trips - we can go months (if we don't take road trips) without visiting a gas station, and 18-24 months between oil changes. No transmission fluid changes. Battery is 9 years old now with 85k and still holds about 70% what it did when it was new. It's cheap enough to operate to offset the additional state taxes and then some. Electric cost to charge comes out to about 4 cents per mile. Biggest downside is that the winter range drop is quite substantial. About 30% loss due to temperature and you drop another 30-40% if you use the 5000W heater.

The highway robbery (literally) of charging station rates for away-from-home charging makes driving cross-country in a BEV no less expensive than putting gas into a traditional ICE car. Hence I think a traditional hybrid or PHEV makes more sense if you ever need to drive more than 100-150 miles from home in a given day. 3.5 KW/h/mi at 14c/KW/h is about $12 to go 300 miles... at the current price of gas of about $3/gal you'd need to get 75 MPG or more to match/beat the cost per mile. As soon as you start using commercial charging stations that offer super-fast L3 charging, electric cost skyrockets and wipes out any price benefit to having a BEV. So from my point of view, a BEV loses its attractiveness if you drive any farther than you can charge it at home between trips.

I think the industry as a whole needs to spend more time on battery and infrastructure tech to offer a more comprehensive and competetive network of charging stations. I also think we need to see less BEV trucks and SUVs that "guzzle" 2.5-3 mi/KWh and offer more cars that get 4-5 (or more) KWh/mi. That, combined with advances in battery tech, will make it easier to adopt. Oh, and also, let the consumers decide when they're ready for it. Don't force consumers to choose between bad and worse for the sake of some illusion of advancing the industry. Those who want, will... and the industry needs to mature naturally to determine if the tech is appropriate or not.
 
It will be interesting to see if the Ram hybrid does well. Drive modes are all electric and the pentastar v6 is only used as a generator. It's been a while since I read the numbers, but it has better than ICE range. Plus it looks like a regular truck (I'm not a huge fan of the look but some are).

But once that initial range is gone, like Brandon said, cost goes up on the road trip.
 
Zep5.0 said:
It will be interesting to see if the Ram hybrid does well. Drive modes are all electric and the pentastar v6 is only used as a generator. It's been a while since I read the numbers, but it has better than ICE range. Plus it looks like a regular truck (I'm not a huge fan of the look but some are).

But once that initial range is gone, like Brandon said, cost goes up on the road trip.
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That's interesting, something similar to the Chinese BYD truck then? AFAIK a hybrid design not used here in the US, it runs the gas engine at peak efficiency only to charge the batteries. Apparently the engine can generate enough electrical output that the trunk never runs out of power. The review I watched below had some impressive results.


:LOL:
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Trash pandas are amazing. They just hate them as much as we do!
I see a family of them occasionally raiding a pile of food someone threw out; Momma,daddy and baby. It was hard to resist baby begging for food, but I do. I really wanted to pet him, but I don't want stitches, and rabies shots,lol.
 
Kenz said:
AFAIK a hybrid design not used here in the US, it runs the gas engine at peak efficiency only to charge the batteries.
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I believe that's how the Chevy Volt PHEV operates - the engine is not directly connected to the wheels - it only runs to increase electrical output to drive the motors for the eCVT. I don't know if it runs at peak BSFC all the time though, as I've never driven one.

The Fusion HEV/PHEVs do directly connect the engine to the wheels in their eCVT, but when the engine runs it runs at the most efficient BSFC for the power demand which leaves excess output not required to propel the vehicle available for charging. Then when the engine cuts off because the battery is charged sufficiently for EV operation, the average fuel consumption is closer to what it would be with peak engine efficiency whenever it runs. Plus, of course, regenerative braking. It's rather crafty.
 
I'd love to see a schematic for one of the drive units; I built one for a 10hp motor once, but those are easy compared to an ev car. and regen braking currents would be wild; the controls for active rectifiers is amazing. It involves using a transistor to mimic a diode,so there's little loss. (std diodes are slow to turn on/off,and drop .6-~1.5v, going higher with higher currents or voltages. a diode in a microwave drops about 15v, but the transformer is 3500V. but they run less than an amp.
 
theterminator93 said:
I believe that's how the Chevy Volt PHEV operates - the engine is not directly connected to the wheels - it only runs to increase electrical output to drive the motors for the eCVT. I don't know if it runs at peak BSFC all the time though, as I've never driven one.

The Fusion HEV/PHEVs do directly connect the engine to the wheels in their eCVT, but when the engine runs it runs at the most efficient BSFC for the power demand which leaves excess output not required to propel the vehicle available for charging. Then when the engine cuts off because the battery is charged sufficiently for EV operation, the average fuel consumption is closer to what it would be with peak engine efficiency whenever it runs. Plus, of course, regenerative braking. It's rather crafty.
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This is all correct. The Volt drivetrain is the same concept as a diesel-electric locomotive. The engine is a glorified generator. Same for the BMW i3. My brother-in-law had a Volt and the engine only ran when he had gone further than the plug-in range would allow.

The Honda FCVs that run on hydrogen are also electric-propelled. The hydrogen engine is a generator for the electric motor.
 
The fundamental difference between the Volt and Diesel locomotives is the Volt still uses a battery, diesels locomotives spin a generator at all times that directly powers the traction motors, so they’re essentially ICE vehicles with an electric “transmission” to move that power to the wheels, which is inherently more efficient than a mechanical transmission and an engine that is constantly fluctuating in RPM. The Volt throws a battery in the chain so as to be able to run as a pure EV until it’s depleted.
 
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