Thunderbird Speaker Size Possibilities

Unfortunately It's not boom that's an issue: it's shrillness / lack of depth in that range. It's almost the inverse of boom: everything midrange all sounds so flat and tinny. Cranking the bass just plasters boom all over the place, but doesn't actually solve it: if you listen closely, the vocals still sound thin even if I crank anything from 200hz on down. It's like the bass and midrange are segregated somehow. I had the issue before I installed a sub, and it's still there after I added one.

Hopefully a visit to the installer gets to the bottom of it.
 
I managed to fix the above with some judicious tweaks to the subwoofer and system as a whole. Since it's my thread and the subject's still basically the same, I figure I'd return to this though.

I was speaking to a guy a couple of weeks ago and he said that "back in the day" people managed to stick 8" shallow-mount Alpines in their doors. Now, I have an absolutely perfect 8" speaker I'd kill to fit in there that I know would work in terms of depth, but I would love to know how you manage that otherwise. Back in behind he said there was plenty of room, being largely plastic you can cut away, but it's the front, in view that I wonder about. The speaker grill seems pretty heavily bounded to me on all sides, but I presume I'm missing something.

Anyone know what this guy was referring to, or otherwise how you'd manage this? As it was a Super Coupe guy, maybe a thread on SCCOA?

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94-95s actually used a metal mesh speaker grille that matched the size of the opening but 96-97s used molded plastic so a bigger speaker would I imagine most definitely be wasted. 5x7”s are good though
 
IMO the rear speakers in the quarter panels suck. I ended up using the existing holes in the rear window shelf (whatever its called) and making some panels to mount the speakers. I think I used a 4x7's or something like that and with the 2 base in the trunk, I am blasting 8 speakers! Wow, not wonder I have ringing in my ears....

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I also covered the bottoms of the speakers with speaker cuff's or whatever ya call em....

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I put 2 jbl 6x8's, and a 12" jbl sub, with a pyle plad 618 amp.It runs 130dB at 56 A off the battery. Sounds perfect
 
I'll try again. :) I but 2 sets of 6x8 jbl's gto6870's in the stock locations. I used a jbl 1214 12" subwoofer, in a sealed box. It's small, 1.5 cu ft. I added a huge 6 channel amp, a pyle plad 618, which is a 2500w class ab amp. Amp ad sub in trunk. It sounds great, from an alpine cda 7887 cd/mp3 deck.
It sounds great; I listen to everything, And it sounds as good on Sinatra as it does with Snoop. 130dB is a sound pressure level; and that's running jet engine level. And will cause hearing damage. I've only ran it that high standing outside the car, using the remote.

If your system sounds bad, get better speakers, and a better amp. And your deck may suck.
 
Pretty much, yeah. I do not listen with it up like that. The safety guy was there that day, checking noise in our shop. (Phd's cutting steel, with a wood bandsaw is noisy, lol.

I hate to tell you, but speakers and amps by alpine do sound thin. I don't like them. I installed a bunch of them for people tho.
I buy cheap class ab amps, change out the resistors in the signal paths with metal film, which drops noise, make changes to the power circuit to tune for that amps transformer, and make it variable frequency. It will incrrease the switching frequency to match the curve of the transformer. And sometimes change out the power supply caps, if they're trash.
 
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I'd start here. Quality is not cheap...

If the speakers have loud peaks, it really messes up some music. Especially tremolo work on a guitar, horns,keyboards, and woodwinds.
I listen to Beethoven, Mozart, and others...

If you're going to a tech, have him sweep your system, and generate a spl curve. at say 40% of max power. Looking at that will show your problem.

Also have him make sure you're not clipping the amp; that generates spurious noise.
 
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Stanley said:
I do have a sub, but my main issue is a shrill, flat midrange: I have great depth, great highs, but that middle range sounds hollow. I was hoping to fit in larger speakers specifically so I could get a bit more oomph in the almost but not quite low end, and was hoping that 6x9s would be better than 6.5" for that purpose. At the same time, I don't know a lot about speakers in general: I'm learning as I go.

I know there are specific mid-bass speakers that exist, but since I don't want to add more speaker ports or otherwise mess with the stock outer appearance (internals are fine), I was under the impression that just installing mid-bass speakers by themselves as a replacement for the fronts or rears would not work.
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I cut out the rears of my 97 and put 6x9 doesn't help as much as your hoping it will... My 94 had sallow mount pro audio 8s in the rear that frigging thing screamed but honestly not worth the effort to put in 6x9 over 5x7...5x7 will do it if you get the right 5x7s amplify them properly and eq/crossover them properly. My SC I added 6.5 to the center arm rest as well as the rear deck between the seat on rear window. 5x7s in the stock locations added tweeters to front it does rather well..
 
I installed all JVC power (head unit and amp) with Blaupunkt speakers in the Cougar and it still sounds like sh!t. Now, the Mark VII factory speakers and amp and a JVC head unit rocked the house and was the best sound I have ever heard. The Town Car has excellent audio as well with the OEM set or JVC and 3rd party amp. Location, location, location.

So, I guess when you screw with something that was designed to be optimal, you end up getting trash. I thought putting the speakers in the rear quarter panels was the worse design from Ford, so I couldn't make it any worse putting them in the rear window panel. I have another amp sitting in my garage ready for the 2 subs. Then I can use the 6 channel amp to power the rest of the speakers.... I really am just blabbing here. Must be late.
 
The staging in my car is perfect. I play live stuff a lot, especially Rush All the Worlds a Stage, and exit stage left. Set up right, you should be able to hear Geddy walk around the stage. And when Alex and he swap places, the audio does too.
 
I just use the rear speakers as fill and concentrate all my efforts up front. Doors and dash pillars. I was just hoping to get those 8" speakers in the door if it were all possible, though I have a perfectly good second-choice set of 6"s if that doesn't pan out.

Got the soundproofing in the floors and doors, but a good DSP is pricy and so overall I only got the audio up to what I consider bearable before swinging back to mechanics.
 
Having any speakers in the rear has the potential to screw with your soundstage. My rear quarter panel speakers are only for rear fill. I run the levels matched with the front speakers and then apply a 6 dB cut at the source so I barely hear them. In a sedan, they're for the benefit of the passengers seated in the back, not me.

I believe that rear deck speakers are a complete waste of time. A pair of 6x9s back there won't make up for not having a sub, and if you do have a sub, the 6x9s aren't going to be very impactful anyway. Having more speakers isn't always better. Oftentimes, it'll end up worse if you don't have the equipment to allow you to tune the system and set the driver's seat as the sweet spot for listening.
 
It's easy to make poor sound the more speakers you have. Time correction is very valuable. My deck is a dsp, basically. I get a 9 band parametric eq, with presets, sub features, and an oled hideaway screen.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Irv
Irv said:
Having more speakers isn't always better. Oftentimes, it'll end up worse if you don't have the equipment to allow you to tune the system and set the driver's seat as the sweet spot for listening.
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Grog6 said:
It's easy to make poor sound the more speakers you have.
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Exactly. If you know what you're doing and you're careful it can work, but it's certainly not needed. I see shots of those OEM "premium" systems that are just something silly like 12 Bose speakers crammed into every angle of the car, reflecting sound all over and cancelling each other at multiple points and I feel so sorry for the buyer and all the cash they flushed away. It's the audio equivalent of stickercharging your car and adding a big spoiler, except it costs a ton more.
 
Agreed. As long as an audio engineer with the right equipment places that sea of speakers exactly, it can work. But you're unlikely to do it randomly.
 
Grog6 said:
This looks like the new equivalent amp to the one I have:https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Class-Mosfet-Amplifier-High-Current/dp/B0C1HMZ9LV?th=1
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Basic question, do these newer amps resist overheating better? I have (now old) Sony amps, the "Xplod" series I think, and the separate bass amp hates hot days and will cut out if I'm playing bassy music. Nothing excessive, just newer Metallica CDs or a band with a solid bass player. My stereo guy was saying I should swap both older amps to a combined 5-6 channel amp and my subwoofer cutting out would be solved. I also want to do the 8" subwoofer speaker in the stock SC JBL trunk subwoofer box swap so I will also wind up with less power needed as well.
 
I can't speak to the Sony Xplod series or the specific mono amp you have, but amps in general have gotten a lot smaller and more efficient over the years, so they don't generate as much heat.

I've never had any heat issues with my 4x75W @ 4Ω plus 300W @ 2Ω JL Audio XD700/5 and its tiny 10x7x2" footprint. I bought that amp in 2011, but amp sizes have largely stayed about the same since then.

The XD700/5 replaced a Directed Audio 500 I installed in 2001 that was only 4x75W @ 4Ω and about 17x9x2". The 5-channel amp from that series was the Directed Audio 650 and I have no idea what its dimensions were, but obviously it would have been even chunkier.

The space savings alone were worth it because it returned a lot of space I would have otherwise used up for a modest 5-channel system in terms of total system power.
 
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Yes, modern amplifiers are much better at heat. That doesn't mean you can't get amps that cut corners, are badly designed, or just plain cheap, but a major advantage in the past decade has been the reduction of size and lowering of heat generation.
 
Class D amps are everywhere. They are more efficient, but they sound bad to me. You HAVE to have a fan blowing over the Heatsinks. I'm making a new one out of thin plywood,/my old one was bent plexiglas, that I did with a blow dryer.
 
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