Building a replacement exhaust system

[White Lincoln]

I would like to replace the exhaust setup I have now.

Will it effect the V6 using 2.5" pipe? As I understand exhaust, there has to be some pressure on the exhaust (but I could be wrong). I would like to go to true dual exhaust with an X-pipe and either keep the current mufflers or replace them. The muffler depends on the size of the pipe. The CAT forward is a 2.0" pipe and currently have 2.25" from the CAT back.

 

[theterminator93]

Exhaust upgrades 101

Upgrading the exhaust on your MN12 isn't difficult, but you need to have realistic expectations on what will change when you start upgrading pipes or swapping mufflers. The factory exhaust and mufflers are not terribly restrictive, especially with stock (or near-stock) powertrains. The...

forum.birdcats.com

Pressure = bad
Velocity to create scavenging = good
Too much velocity = pressure buildup

Basically there is a sweet spot. Too small, and you end up creating pressure which restricts power (try breathing through a straw). Too large, and you lose the benefits of scavenging.


IMO, 2" diameter is more than sufficient on the 3.8 N/A.

 

[White Lincoln]

Exhaust upgrades 101

Upgrading the exhaust on your MN12 isn't difficult, but you need to have realistic expectations on what will change when you start upgrading pipes or swapping mufflers. The factory exhaust and mufflers are not terribly restrictive, especially with stock (or near-stock) powertrains. The...

forum.birdcats.com

Pressure = bad
Velocity to create scavenging = good

IMO, 2" diameter is more than sufficient on the 3.8 N/A.

Thanks for the info Terminator.
Unfortunately, TruBendz does not make a 2" dual exhaust kit, only 2.25" and 2.5". If a 2.25" is going to cause issues on a stock V6, I guess I can learn to weld. YIKES! Or make the exhaust out of aluminum and use a MAP torch to solder the connections. A pipe bender for 2-3" is NOT CHEAP and I have not seen any for sale in my area yet. If I could get a new or used welder and pipe bender for under $300, that I would do.

 

[MadMikeyL]

What is the reason for replacing the exhaust? If you are looking for a good sound, you pretty much aren’t going to get that out of the 3.8. They just are not a good sounding engine, and with larger exhaust they tend to drone at highway speeds. If you are looking for performance, your money is better spent elsewhere as the 3.8NA will never be a powerhouse, and you would need to be making significantly more power before the stock exhaust really becomes a restriction. If you just want the look of the dual pipes, get a stock rear section off a V8 car in the junkyard, it will bolt right up to the stock front section on your V6.

 

[White Lincoln]

What is the reason for replacing the exhaust? If you are looking for a good sound, you pretty much aren’t going to get that out of the 3.8. They just are not a good sounding engine, and with larger exhaust they tend to drone at highway speeds. If you are looking for performance, your money is better spent elsewhere as the 3.8NA will never be a powerhouse, and you would need to be making significantly more power before the stock exhaust really becomes a restriction. If you just want the look of the dual pipes, get a stock rear section off a V8 car in the junkyard, it will bolt right up to the stock front section on your V6.

LMAO... let me find some pics... CAT forward is fine, CAT back is from a V8 Cougar and the mufflers input are not 2.25" OEM size (2.5"), as suggested in the advertisement when I bought them. The CAT forward to CAT back is 2.0" to 2.25". I think its a mess and I believe is part of my rattle when the car is cold. Once I drive around for 5 minutes or so, the rattle goes away. I am thinking the exhaust tubing is swelling with the heat and sealing up any loose areas that might rattle when cold. I thought about taking the car to a mechanic and see if they can find the rattles, but the last time I drove with a mechanic, they said "what rattles? I don't hear any rattles...". That was the end of thinking someone else might know what it is.

 

[MadMikeyL]

Ah, I see. Ok, so in your case I would get the 2.25” dual kit from truebendz, a Magnaflow 2.25” dual inlet/outlet muffler with the built-in X-pipe, and a pair of 2.25” Dynomax turbo mufflers. The setup then would be your front pipe sections, into the Magnaflow mid-mounted, then out of the mid-mount to the trubendz pipes, out yo the back and then into the turbo mufflers, and have it all welded together, not clamped! If you want to make it easier to remove for service, you can add a pair of flanges right in front of or behind the mid-mount muffler, but again those should be welded in place. That setup should keep it pretty quiet, not drone, and resolve your exhaust rattles.

 

[White Lincoln]

Thanks for the suggestions, that helps too. I was wondering what type of pipe you would recommend, aluminum OR stainless steel?

 

[XR7-4.6]

You mean aluminIZED vs stainless Steel? Aluminum would not last very long as an exhaust system, it would literally melt! In the rust belt long term durability stainless all the way, in non-salt climates/fair weather driver situations aluminized mild steel however is fine.

 

[White Lincoln]

Oops... I stand corrected. "2.25 Inch Aluminized"... DOH!

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Probably unrelated, but in the spirit of considering all possibilities:

I used to have an annoying rattle from just below the driver, particularly when cold. It ended up being the left/rear O2 sensor connector which kept hitting the underbody.

 

[White Lincoln]

Probably unrelated, but in the spirit of considering all possibilities:

I used to have an annoying rattle from just below the driver, particularly when cold. It ended up being the left/rear O2 sensor connector which kept hitting the underbody.

Check that! I tied mine up so it can't hit anything, same on drinkers side. I have been under my car slamming on everything I can find to see what is loose and cannot find anything, even the exhaust. But I can't think of anything else that would not rattle as bad when cold and quiet up when the car heats up.

Damn old cars. They will drive you to drinking with their quirks...

I have a rattle in my Town Car like the e-brake cable is smacking on the underbody. But of course, after examination, nothing. It could be in one of the brakes in the rear or... geez... DRINKING I TELL YOU!!!!

 

[1997ThunderbirdLXV6]

Honestly, with older cars it's much easier to be forgiving. I've owned many brand new cars, and when they had rattles, I got really upset over it.

 

[White Lincoln]

Well, the suggestion from MadMikey would set me back about $600 and that's not installation (welding). With my setup, I was looking at around $500 tops for everything. But I was using a basic X-pipe and less expensive mufflers and not welding. I really like the mufflers I have, just a shame about the false advertising on size. Anyway, I think I will have to forgo dual exhaust for now, but will look into having the mufflers welded and flanges at the current cat forward or replace the 3rd cat and put in an X-pipe, welded with flanges. Also, weld the junction of the two flanges in the middle.

This has been an educational post for me. I learned a lot and will use the info to improve my exhaust system.

 

[Grog6]

Someone was was selling a trubends kit last week for$100. I think he tossed it when it didn't sell. most times, drone is not getting the tip of the exhaust out the back far enough.

 

[Rodeo Joe]

I have the same setup on mine that Mikey mentioned, but unfortunately on of the mufflers is obsolete now.

Joe

 

[White Lincoln]

Someone was was selling a trubends kit last week for$100. I think he tossed it when it didn't sell. most times, drone is not getting the tip of the exhaust out the back far enough.

He didn't want to ship. I don't blame him. Shame it went to the dumpster.

 

[Grog6]

mho, you're pissing up a rope to think it will help a stock v6. They just wont sound good.
I went through this with an 83 Firebird.

 

[White Lincoln]

"mho, you're pissing up a rope..."

Interesting phrase. Duly noted. The only reason I got the V8 exhaust from a cougar is because I now have dual pipes in the back. It looks so much better than one muffler. I just need to take care of the rattles under the car and I suspect it is the clamped joints I have. As mentioned, I think for now I will get the joints welded (or learn to weld) and be done with it. The exhaust itself is in good condition, but the joints are a joke. Thanks Grog for the input, always welcomed.

 

[White Lincoln]

How similar would these glass packs be to a central resonator on my car (using 2)? Night and day or mildly different?

 

[XR7-4.6]

How similar would these glass packs be to a central resonator on my car (using 2)? Night and day or mildly different?

Are you using a crossover pipe(x/H)? You certainly COULD use cherry bombs as resonators but I don’t see those fitting with a crossover pipe in the limited area you can place them, a DIDO magnaflow style straight through muffler would be a better bet since they have a built in x pipe.

 

[Grog6]

The mandrel bent systems pipes in 2.5 sound awesome on a 4.6, where the 2 1/8 set I had a local shop do sounds like angry bees,lol.
Both with x pipes, and the same cheap $25 mufflers.

92-97 Ford Thunderbird Dual Exhaust Tubing - 2.5 Inch 304 Stainless with X-Pipe

TruBendz Technology offers services working with mandrel bend tube and pipe products, including catback exhaust, downpipes, converters, mufflers, bends, tailpipes and more.

www.trubendz.com

the aluminized lasts fine here.

 

[White Lincoln]

Are you using a crossover pipe(x/H)? You certainly COULD use cherry bombs as resonators but I don’t see those fitting with a crossover pipe in the limited area you can place them, a DIDO magnaflow style straight through muffler would be a better bet since they have a built in x pipe.

I am tossed... cross-over, no cross-over... does it matter on a V6? And the length of the cherry bombs is the length with a cross over. But I should could get small ones if I do go that route.

 

[White Lincoln]

The mandrel bent systems pipes in 2.5 sound awesome on a 4.6, where the 2 1/8 set I had a local shop do sounds like angry bees,lol.
Both with x pipes, and the same cheap $25 mufflers.

92-97 Ford Thunderbird Dual Exhaust Tubing - 2.5 Inch 304 Stainless with X-Pipe

TruBendz Technology offers services working with mandrel bend tube and pipe products, including catback exhaust, downpipes, converters, mufflers, bends, tailpipes and more.

www.trubendz.com

the aluminized lasts fine here.

Quit reading my mind grog... As I just mentioned, I am tossed if my little stock, 150 hp, er... 75 horse power V6 would really benefit. I went to look for the single V6 pipe and it is no longer available, and if you find it, its $500 for something. I paid (and threw away) $30 a few, er... several years ago.

Here are 2 layouts I am considering:

(I do want to either weld the pipes myself or have someone weld them, the clamps are there to hold it in place under the car to fit weld the parts.)

 

[XR7-4.6]

I am tossed... cross-over, no cross-over... does it matter on a V6? And the length of the cherry bombs is the length with a cross over. But I should could get small ones if I do go that route.

Yes, V6 or V8 doesn’t really matter, a crossover helps, you get better scavenging, more performance and better sound than straight pipes. If anything it matters more on a less powerful engine since you get more out of things like this.

 

[Zep5.0]

I'd probably go with a magnaflow cross flow resonator, which is basically an X inside the muffler. Had a cat back on my 3.6l Malibu that sounded really nice. But really thinking the benefit for you is one piece that does everything you want or need there.

 

[White Lincoln]

I'd probably go with a magnaflow cross flow resonator, which is basically an X inside the muffler. Had a cat back on my 3.6l Malibu that sounded really nice. But really thinking the benefit for you is one piece that does everything you want or need there.

MadMikey mentioned that earlier in this post. Steep though. $150 on Amazon.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I had that muffler on my car for years and I still think it was the best it sounded, and got it through another member who had cams in their car where it sounded even better!

$150ea isnt that bad, cheapie SS mufflers aren’t much cheaper for a pair

 

[Grog6]

The cheapie aluminized mufflers I bought were 25 bux each, lol. but they die fast in salty climes.

 

[XR7-4.6]

The cheapie aluminized mufflers I bought were 25 bux each, lol. but they die fast in salty climes.

There are cheapie SS mufflers out there now. I need to redo my exhaust a bit for the Kooks and most likely I’m getting the Flowmaster FlowFX mufflers(they’re actually straight through like a Magnaflow or Borla unlike most chambered flowmasters) and SS and only like $50ish each. There’s also Jegs and Summit brand chambered mufflers in SS even cheaper, which I’m also debating getting.

 

[Grog6]

Just don't buy 14"mufflers for the back, lol. My shop asked me "where do you want us to put these? The right ones are ~7", lol