Chingon's Engine Build

[Chingon1]

Well that is true. I forgot you were running boost. That will definitely make a difference.

I know losing low end sucks but the biggest pro I can see from this intake is it won’t crack on you ever. Main reason why I wanted to switch. Plus if you have gears im pretty sure you wont notice that big a of difference.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Boost seems to help make up for it even though centrifugals are inherently stronger at high RPM, I’d never ever run that intake on a NA car. With the blower and going off that dyno I’d bet what you’ll mostly find is it feels basically stock in normal driving. Speaking for myself, that’s exactly why I went to the 4.30s with my 4V. It makes way way more power up top but in normal driving it felt basically the same as before.

 

[Chingon1]

Boost seems to help make up for it even though centrifugals are inherently stronger at high RPM, I’d never ever run that intake on a NA car. With the blower and going off that dyno I’d bet what you’ll mostly find is it feels basically stock in normal driving. Speaking for myself, that’s exactly why I went to the 4.30s with my 4V. It makes way way more power up top but in normal driving it felt basically the same as before.

The only way I’d run this intake N/A is if I was running a crazy camshaft and planning on spinning it 7500rpm+ besides that it doesn’t make sense.

I will say, the vortech is pretty boring up until about 4000rpm then it’s a different animal. My hopes are with this intake, the small 268h cams and the peaky nature of the vortech it’ll be making power to 7000 rpm, doesn’t the stock computer suck beyond that rpm???

Anyways, if I was chasing torque I’d rather LS swap and put a 6.0 in it. I have nothing against the LS platform, it’s funny when I see people hate on it haha idiots, it’s a great engine!

In all honestly I wouldn’t even be opposed to k24 swapping I love thier power bands and with a turbo your making 500whp all day plus you’d lose some weight off the nose.

 

[Grog6]

If I still had the parts I'd 390 swap lazarus, with the 3 deuces intake, lol. It's too tall for the hood, but I think it's smaller than a 4v.

 

[XR7-4.6]

The only way I’d run this intake N/A is if I was running a crazy camshaft and planning on spinning it 7500rpm+ besides that it doesn’t make sense.

I will say, the vortech is pretty boring up until about 4000rpm then it’s a different animal. My hopes are with this intake, the small 268h cams and the peaky nature of the vortech it’ll be making power to 7000 rpm, doesn’t the stock computer suck beyond that rpm???

Anyways, if I was chasing torque I’d rather LS swap and put a 6.0 in it. I have nothing against the LS platform, it’s funny when I see people hate on it haha idiots, it’s a great engine!

In all honestly I wouldn’t even be opposed to k24 swapping I love thier power bands and with a turbo your making 500whp all day plus you’d lose some weight off the nose.

I don’t hate LS engines or LS swaps but I do kind of hate LS swap culture. I find the challenge of making a car “fast” more fun than actually going truly fast, and the LS is just such charted territory I find it no more exciting than buying a used Tesla and handily beating the 95% of LS swapped cars out there they can. For me it’s not how fast you go it’s how you go fast, and although the modular 4.6 platform is a bit challenged by its displacement, that’s kind of what I always liked about it, it has potential few are brave enough to exploit.

Chevy has made better V8s out of the box than Ford since 1955 with two universally agreed upon exceptions; the 351 Cleveland and Coyote. Y Blocks. FE(the ultra rare variants the exceptions), MEL, 385, Modified(351M/400), Modular and even to an extent Windsor(even though it is semi-exceptional) power some of Fords most iconic cars ever made but largely are fodder for swaps now. I have no intent to tell people how to build their cars, but I will say: stop listening to people telling you how to build your cars!!!”

 

[Chingon1]

@Grog6 hasnt there been people who have 460 swapped our cars?? My main gripe with some thing like that is the weight over the already front biased nose.

@XR7-4.6 well I will say, I love high revving engine and I know the 4.6 does plenty of that in the right configuration. There’s a guy on YT who revs his yellow Mach to 8000RPM snd it sound rediculous!! With that said, I’ve driven a stock lq9 swapped Chevy pick up with 4.10’s and that truck was Str8 sauce. Can’t imagen a cammed out or boosted 6 liter.

That new Godzilla 7.3 engine does seem like a great swap tho, that low end torque must be axle snapping fun haha

 

[XR7-4.6]

@Grog6 hasnt there been people who have 460 swapped our cars?? My main gripe with some thing like that is the weight over the already front biased nose.

@XR7-4.6 well I will say, I love high revving engine and I know the 4.6 does plenty of that in the right configuration. There’s a guy on YT who revs his yellow Mach to 8000RPM snd it sound rediculous!! With that said, I’ve driven a stock lq9 swapped Chevy pick up with 4.10’s and that truck was Str8 sauce. Can’t imagen a cammed out or boosted 6 liter.

That new Godzilla 7.3 engine does seem like a great swap tho, that low end torque must be axle snapping fun haha

Yep there were a few 460 swaps, I genuinely feel they RUIN these cars lol… But it’s no worse than throwing a Chevy 454 into something… which I once saw swapped into an MN12 too

A cammed out or boosted 6 liter LQ9 will perform exactly the same as a cammed out/ boosted ~6 liter *anything* with similar flowing heads. That’s my main thing, the LS isn’t magical, it’s just cheap.

 

[Chingon1]

@XR7-4.6 not necessarily ruin, but I’m sure it would totally ruin the handling of these cars. Big blocks do sound viscous tho not gonna lie.

What other 6 liter engines are there out there that come close? I do agree tho, I give it up to the Chevy team for making a beast of an engine so cheap and plentiful. The only other 6 liter from ford is that 6.2 from the raptor and f250’s but they don’t quite make the same power.

 

[XR7-4.6]

@XR7-4.6 not necessarily ruin, but I’m sure it would totally ruin the handling of these cars. Big blocks do sound viscous tho not gonna lie.

What other 6 liter engines are there out there that come close? I do agree tho, I give it up to the Chevy team for making a beast of an engine so cheap and plentiful. The only other 6 liter from ford is that 6.2 from the raptor and f250’s but they don’t quite make the same power.

Ford 351W (5.8)with AFR heads, Chrysler 360/5.9 Magnum with Edelbrock Performer heads. Etc. LSs are easier to find in the junkyard, but at the end of the day engines are just air pumps.

Ruin is a bold word but yeah, I mean I don’t personally love the IRS… ok that’s a given this time of year but I mean the independent rear suspension …as you alluded to it’s makes things fragile. You could make one of these cars faster and more durable in a straight line with a solid axle but, that kind of ruins the point of this chassis don’t you think? That’s the way I think of certain engines… not LS since they basically weigh the same as Windsor/modulars but the big blocks are just absolute ballast. The weight distribution in the platform as is like 58/42 for V8s, add 200lbs more to the nose and you may as well have a FWD car

 

[AdamG]

My V8 weight distribution isn't that bad...I had mine weighed years ago and this was before aluminum heads and a fiberglass hood. My buddy's cougar is even better, he was at 52% front, interested in seeing it now that he has the aje k member in it now...

 

[Grog6]

I was surprised how tiny a 351 looks installed. Yeah, a big block would handle like crap.
It's going to be interesting losing the block weight on the teksid engine I'm building.

 

[XR7-4.6]

My V8 weight distribution isn't that bad...I had mine weighed years ago and this was before aluminum heads and a fiberglass hood. My buddy's cougar is even better, he was at 52% front, interested in seeing it now that he has the aje k member in it now...

View attachment 16925

That’s not nearly as bad as I thought. I got the 58/42 figures from the MVMA documents. For a 4.6 it states 2175 front (which seems about right with your measured weight) and 1536 for the rear which is pretty light

https://www.sccoa.com/articles/thunderbird_1994.pdf

 

[Zep5.0]

My V8 weight distribution isn't that bad...I had mine weighed years ago and this was before aluminum heads and a fiberglass hood. My buddy's cougar is even better, he was at 52% front, interested in seeing it now that he has the aje k member in it now...

I really want to get my car on the scales this spring. Not that I'm going racing, but to see what I've created. This is cool to see.

 

[Chingon1]

@XR7-4.6 the key word you said, aftermarket heads haha those stick heads suck cheecks haha I will defend big block tho, even if they make 1hp per cubic inch that still 454, 460 or whatever haha plus crazy torque everywhere in the curve.

@AdamG you have the 5.0?? How much does the fiberglass hood weigh compared to the stock??

@Grog6 the difference is about 80lbs I believe, that plus moving the battery to the trunk is about 120lbs pretty cool if you ask me.


@Zep5.0 what have you done to yours??

 

[AdamG]

No clue on the hoods because I never weighed them, however it is a noticeable difference. The fiberglass hoods are easy to pick up by myself, stock hood is definitely a lot heavier. Mine was a 5.0, it now has a dart block and is a 363.

 

[XR7-4.6]

@XR7-4.6 the key word you said, aftermarket heads haha those stick heads suck cheecks haha I will defend big block tho, even if they make 1hp per cubic inch that still 454, 460 or whatever haha plus crazy torque everywhere in the curve.

My attitude is what’s the cost and compromise of adaptation for the whole shebang? You need custom motor mounts, custom headers, a GM transmission, custom driveshaft and aftermarket EFI control to run a LS. How much is all that really vs a 351 roller block and aftermarket heads?

Honestly on the whole LS swap culture I don’t have much problem with the realm of 6.0 LQ4s and LQ9s since they’re a tough value to beat even with those factors. 4.8 and 5.3 LSs though many go with, sorry but…

No stock headed 454 or 460 is making 1hp per cubic inch unless you’re going by pre-1972 SAE-net factory numbers. Both obviously have the potential to but they’re mostly just torque motors in used form.

 

[Grog6]

454 engines make a pig out of whatever they're in. I drove a 6.6l smoky and the bandit Trans am down the dragon once, and that's the worst drive ever. I've came closer to dying up there, and it scared me less than driving that beast. It pushed the front, even at 10 mph.

 

[XR7-4.6]

454 engines make a pig out of whatever they're in. I drove a 6.6l smoky and the bandit Trans am down the dragon once, and that's the worst drive ever. I've came closer to dying up there, and it scared me less than driving that beast. It pushed the front, even at 10 mph.

Those are not 454 powered, which 6.6 liter denotes. The the 6.6 Trans ams are powered by either the Pontiac 400 or the Olds 403.

FWIW while the standards of performance have evolved the Trans Ams of the era actually handle good for muscle cars.

 

[Zep5.0]

Assuming cost is the main variable, The simple answer here is if you want 600+ hp you go LS in a boosted application or big block if you want NA. Cost would dictate LS makes the most sense there as that's a healthy BB and would take some expensive parts. You could also go coyote if you really wanted to stay Ford. If 600 is the top goal I'd think 4.6 4v is the boosted answer.

 

[Zep5.0]

As for weight reduction for my car:
AJE K member
Aluminum heads
Fiberglass hood
Air pump & bracket delete
Mark VIIII LCAs

Weight distribution change:
Battery in the trunk
Custom sub enclosure in place of the spare tire
A lot of dynomat (Jegs brand)
Lizard skin under dynomat and under the car.

A couple of unknowns here with the enclosure and dynomat. My guess is I removed 200# and added about 50# back.

 

[Grog6]

Guys on the old site took a teksid engine to over 1200 hp. They cranked up the boost to 21#, gave it a '150' shot of nitrous, and scattered it across the track.
So, if you go that far, skip the nitrous.

 

[Chingon1]

My attitude is what’s the cost and compromise of adaptation for the whole shebang? You need custom motor mounts, custom headers, a GM transmission, custom driveshaft and aftermarket EFI control to run a LS. How much is all that really vs a 351 roller block and aftermarket heads?

Honestly on the whole LS swap culture I don’t have much problem with the realm of 6.0 LQ4s and LQ9s since they’re a tough value to beat even with those factors. 4.8 and 5.3 LSs though many go with, sorry but…

No stock headed 454 or 460 is making 1hp per cubic inch unless you’re going by pre-1972 SAE-net factory numbers. Both obviously have the potential to but they’re mostly just torque motors in used form.

yea I agree there’s a lot more involved with swapping an LS, but dollar for dollar they are HARD To beat. Even if you built a 351 to make similar power, your talking LS swap money, even a 5.3 makes as much or more than a 351 with stock heads.

Assuming cost is the main variable, The simple answer here is if you want 600+ hp you go LS in a boosted application or big block if you want NA. Cost would dictate LS makes the most sense there as that's a healthy BB and would take some expensive parts. You could also go coyote if you really wanted to stay Ford. If 600 is the top goal I'd think 4.6 4v is the boosted answer.

For sure a coyote would be really cool but right now they are pretty expensive and to be honest I don’t like how they sound compared to our engines. I will say I love thier ability to rev to 8000rpm haha. I will say I’d love a high revving 4v for my bird not gonna lie.
I would like a fiberglass hood, the damn stock one weighs a ton!! How much was yours??

Guys on the old site took a teksid engine to over 1200 hp. They cranked up the boost to 21#, gave it a '150' shot of nitrous, and scattered it across the track.
So, if you go that far, skip the nitrous.

Definitely it’s damn near impossible to mess one up with lower hp goals.

 

[Chingon1]

This would be the goal, crazy sound and RPM.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7356711747887156526

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7362585684370033963

Not sure if yall can see this but this is a cool way to have a semi full carbon fiber hood. He skins the top of the hood, peels it off and uses the lower half of the hood to bond it too. Pretty slick.

 

[XR7-4.6]

yea I agree there’s a lot more involved with swapping an LS, but dollar for dollar they are HARD To beat. Even if you built a 351 to make similar power, your talking LS swap money, even a 5.3 makes as much or more than a 351 with stock heads.




For sure a coyote would be really cool but right now they are pretty expensive and to be honest I don’t like how they sound compared to our engines. I will say I love thier ability to rev to 8000rpm haha. I will say I’d love a high revving 4v for my bird not gonna lie.
I would like a fiberglass hood, the damn stock one weighs a ton!! How much was yours??



Definitely it’s damn near impossible to mess one up with lower hp goals.

I know but my main point is they aren’t magic. Ford effectively dumped the Windsor’s performance aspirations for the modulars after 1996 and they never got a great head like Chevy gave the ground up LS. There’s no argument from me the LS offers bang for your buck, but meh, I have little desire to ever engine swap again but I’d overpay for a 351 with aftermarket heads vs a LS purely just because it’s more fun.

Agreed on the Coyote sound, I don’t like it. It’s the firing order.

This would be the goal, crazy sound and RPM.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7356711747887156526

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7362585684370033963

Not sure if yall can see this but this is a cool way to have a semi full carbon fiber hood. He skins the top of the hood, peels it off and uses the lower half of the hood to bond it too. Pretty slick.

Mine sounds pretty much like that but deeper