1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Admin, could you move posts #356-#360 into my vacuum leak thread? I don't want to be a distraction in this thread; I only posted here because vacuum was part of the OP's screen shots. Thanks!
Thinking about getting this 97
- Thread starter CDsDontBurn
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1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Why though? Where does the difference come from?
Grog6
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i use my xcal2 to datalog, but it agrees with a mech gage I use for bagging carbon fiber.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Ok...after doing some more reading, I can put the vacuum question to rest:
Apparently, OBD Fusion displays absolute manifold pressure while Torque displays a relative value.
So when my app displays say 5 inHg, that's no different than @CDsDontBurn 's app displaying -25 inHg.
Your app takes atmospheric pressure (approx. 29.9 inHg) as a benchmark; then it displays the difference between manifold pressure and atmospheric pressure.
Why the two apps work differently here I'm not sure.
Apparently, OBD Fusion displays absolute manifold pressure while Torque displays a relative value.
So when my app displays say 5 inHg, that's no different than @CDsDontBurn 's app displaying -25 inHg.
Your app takes atmospheric pressure (approx. 29.9 inHg) as a benchmark; then it displays the difference between manifold pressure and atmospheric pressure.
Why the two apps work differently here I'm not sure.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
I don't mind them in here. They're also relevant to me.
Just finished fighting my Gold Bird right now with its front shocks and now trying to figure out the front calipers on it. More posts in the question thread
.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
Front shocks installed, front rotors and pads installed.
The driver side one was a bitch to put in because it wasn't properly clocked in, so I had to bust out my spring compressor to rotate the unit. The passenger side one was a bitch on its own because that lower bolt wouldn't give. But once it was out, it was easy to swap out with the new one.
Found a rodent nest in the valley of the engine, from the PO. When I started to get into the engine itself, I found droppings throughout the engine bay, most notably around the fuel injectors and spark plug boots.
Ill get back to it tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get the manifold swapped over by tomorrow.
Oh, I fixed the broken green EGR hose. I discovered that the green hose is broken nearly throughout the entire run and the PO had it repaired with some super tiny hose and salvaged just some bits of green hose to make the final connections at either end of the hose.
Oh, and she looks great
EDIT: Typo
The driver side one was a bitch to put in because it wasn't properly clocked in, so I had to bust out my spring compressor to rotate the unit. The passenger side one was a bitch on its own because that lower bolt wouldn't give. But once it was out, it was easy to swap out with the new one.
Found a rodent nest in the valley of the engine, from the PO. When I started to get into the engine itself, I found droppings throughout the engine bay, most notably around the fuel injectors and spark plug boots.
Ill get back to it tomorrow. Hopefully, I can get the manifold swapped over by tomorrow.
Oh, I fixed the broken green EGR hose. I discovered that the green hose is broken nearly throughout the entire run and the PO had it repaired with some super tiny hose and salvaged just some bits of green hose to make the final connections at either end of the hose.
Oh, and she looks great
EDIT: Typo
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CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
Got more work done to it today. I have to go to a wedding this evening, so I'm done for the day. Anyway, I got the IM pulled out and all the components swapped over. The aftermarket IM is a tad shorter than the NPI IM. I hope I don't lose any performance over it. I also cleaned up the inside of the throttle body while I have it out.
I replaced the tensioner pulley. I had forgotten that there was also a standalone roller pulley, otherwise I would have replaced that as well. I'll replace it later down the road, likely at the next oil change.
The rodent nest was decently sized, but now it's all picked up.
All I have left to do is clean up the mating surface of the heads, install the replacement IM, install the WP, install the alternator, replace the heater core hoses, add coolant, oil change, rear pads, and brake fluid flush.
It's not a lot, but it's still a lot, lol. The most tedious part has been the IM.
I replaced the tensioner pulley. I had forgotten that there was also a standalone roller pulley, otherwise I would have replaced that as well. I'll replace it later down the road, likely at the next oil change.
The rodent nest was decently sized, but now it's all picked up.
All I have left to do is clean up the mating surface of the heads, install the replacement IM, install the WP, install the alternator, replace the heater core hoses, add coolant, oil change, rear pads, and brake fluid flush.
It's not a lot, but it's still a lot, lol. The most tedious part has been the IM.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
Got her running this afternoon!
This pic is on first start after getting everything done. At first, she was running like hot garbage and I thought I had done something wrong, and kinda-sorta, but not really.
See, on first start, I had primed up the fuel lines by turning the key a few times. Apparently, 5 times is enough but not enough. 5 times will get the car to start but it'll run like it's misfiring. After letting it run for about 39 seconds, I shut it off and primed the fuel again; another 7 or so key cranks. I fired her back up and she was running mint.
I packed up my tools haphazardly and took her for that first spin. A significant noticeable difference is in the braking. The pedal no longer has a "gritty" feeling to it when I press the pedal. I attribute that to new brake fluid - for which I have another issue with I'll post elsewhere about. The pedal and braking is now smooth as silk. I can't say anything really about the bite, she seems a little slow on that part there. I'm not sure if it's always been like that and I haven't noticed because of the "gritty" feeling or if it's a new development.
Install of the replacement IM was tedious, but was definitely important to me. The aftermarket IM though, my largest complaint about it was the plate they give you to run the spark plug wires over. It has this bit that extends towards the throttle body and causes the PVC hose (at the TB) to crimp making it not practical. I have a spare PI alter alternator bracket from a previous JY run that I ended up using instead.
The lower coolant hose is an absolute PITA to get to. I had to pull the battery out of the car to get to it. The old coolant had a white film to it at the bottom of my pan. I wouldn't be surprised if that was also original to the car like so many critical things were.
The coolant system used up about 2-1/2 gallons of cooling. After starting the car, I let the system do it's thing and about 30min later, I was done.
I did find that the front LCAs are in need of help, namely, the lower ball joints. I'll be getting a replacement set of arms and getting them installed at the next oil change at 88k miles.
This pic is on first start after getting everything done. At first, she was running like hot garbage and I thought I had done something wrong, and kinda-sorta, but not really.
See, on first start, I had primed up the fuel lines by turning the key a few times. Apparently, 5 times is enough but not enough. 5 times will get the car to start but it'll run like it's misfiring. After letting it run for about 39 seconds, I shut it off and primed the fuel again; another 7 or so key cranks. I fired her back up and she was running mint.
I packed up my tools haphazardly and took her for that first spin. A significant noticeable difference is in the braking. The pedal no longer has a "gritty" feeling to it when I press the pedal. I attribute that to new brake fluid - for which I have another issue with I'll post elsewhere about. The pedal and braking is now smooth as silk. I can't say anything really about the bite, she seems a little slow on that part there. I'm not sure if it's always been like that and I haven't noticed because of the "gritty" feeling or if it's a new development.
Install of the replacement IM was tedious, but was definitely important to me. The aftermarket IM though, my largest complaint about it was the plate they give you to run the spark plug wires over. It has this bit that extends towards the throttle body and causes the PVC hose (at the TB) to crimp making it not practical. I have a spare PI alter alternator bracket from a previous JY run that I ended up using instead.
The lower coolant hose is an absolute PITA to get to. I had to pull the battery out of the car to get to it. The old coolant had a white film to it at the bottom of my pan. I wouldn't be surprised if that was also original to the car like so many critical things were.
The coolant system used up about 2-1/2 gallons of cooling. After starting the car, I let the system do it's thing and about 30min later, I was done.
I did find that the front LCAs are in need of help, namely, the lower ball joints. I'll be getting a replacement set of arms and getting them installed at the next oil change at 88k miles.
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New rotors and pads aren't glazed, so this is expected; take it easy on the brakes or go out and give them a conditioning run to avoid uneven glazing and pulsing brakes later.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
New rotors and pads aren't glazed, so this is expected; take it easy on the brakes or go out and give them a conditioning run to avoid uneven glazing and pulsing brakes later.
But I did bed them. It's the very first thing I did last night on the first drive after this maintenance job. I did 5 runs from 60 to 5-ish and got the brakes nice and hot to the point where they had that nice hot burning brake smell.
Perhaps I didn't do it enough times?
You can replace just the ball joints in the lower arms in you so desired.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
I'll get the arms. The inner bushings are also pretty done, but not as bad as the ball joints.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
This morning, I noticed that there was a "crunch" sound coming from my front right corner when applying brakes. It only happens when I apply enough brake pressure to make the front end dip. If it's light enough brake pressure, there is no crunch sound.
Reminder, I did change the front struts over the weekend. Is it possible that the quick struts I replaced the originals with are on loose from factory? What would be other possible reasons for the crunch sound?
Reminder, I did change the front struts over the weekend. Is it possible that the quick struts I replaced the originals with are on loose from factory? What would be other possible reasons for the crunch sound?
Bushings or ball joints.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
After a week of driving on the new setup, I'll have to say that engine temps have come down a little bit. The hottest the engine has gotten since the tune up (?) is 228F, so slightly cooler. It's a bit disappointing, TBH given the fact that the car got a new T-Stat, closed vane style water pump, and coolant. Or, maybe it is running at 200F and the temp sensor just sucks as we all know. I have a laser temp scanner, so I'd like to hear where would be the best area for pointing that temp laser at for the most accurate temp reading.
Suspension wise, I do hear a slight knock when going over bumps, potholes, and other road anomalies out of my front end. The front LCAs do need to be replaced, namely the ball joints. The bushings are a bit worn down too, so the whole arm will end up going. I'm just wondering if it will be able to hold out for the next oil change - 5k miles - or just do it now? I know the right answer is "do it now" but can it hold out so I'm only under the car once instead of more than once? What's the general idea there? FWIW, the boots are already torn on the ball joints on the LCAs.
Continuing with the suspension, I still hear that "crunch" sound when going in reverse out of my driveway. I also hear it occasionally when I back into a parking spot at work, or at any store I go shop at. I'm thinking just replacing the sway bar bushings, and perhaps even the end links for starters. Any other ideas on what to look for there? And with the sway bars, how do I know which set of bushings is the ones I need? For example, on RA, they show 26mm, 27mm, 28mm, and 29mm sway bar options.
Suspension wise, I do hear a slight knock when going over bumps, potholes, and other road anomalies out of my front end. The front LCAs do need to be replaced, namely the ball joints. The bushings are a bit worn down too, so the whole arm will end up going. I'm just wondering if it will be able to hold out for the next oil change - 5k miles - or just do it now? I know the right answer is "do it now" but can it hold out so I'm only under the car once instead of more than once? What's the general idea there? FWIW, the boots are already torn on the ball joints on the LCAs.
Continuing with the suspension, I still hear that "crunch" sound when going in reverse out of my driveway. I also hear it occasionally when I back into a parking spot at work, or at any store I go shop at. I'm thinking just replacing the sway bar bushings, and perhaps even the end links for starters. Any other ideas on what to look for there? And with the sway bars, how do I know which set of bushings is the ones I need? For example, on RA, they show 26mm, 27mm, 28mm, and 29mm sway bar options.
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Grog6
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If the lca's are toast, do them All. uca,lca,endlinks, strut rod bushings, tie rod ends.
Order the energy suspension sway bar bushings, diff mounts,and look at the rear endlinks.
I do this every 120kmi or so.
Order the energy suspension sway bar bushings, diff mounts,and look at the rear endlinks.
I do this every 120kmi or so.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
Just needs to be the LCAs and sway bar bushings. The PO did most of the suspension throughout the car already. He only missed the front struts, which I already replaced, and the front LCAs.
The rear end links might need replacement already despite having been changed by the PO. I think the bushings on those are thermoplastic because despite being new(er), they're already cracking.
How do the boots on the lower ball joints look? If they are torn badly and missing chunks, they could be original to the car given the mileage. It is probably not a good idea to drive the car if that is the case. Go through the FB group and you can find many instances of them letting go.... Best case it's a bad day, worst case you need a new fender and hopefully no one got hurt.
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I've got a set of refurbished front LCAs, of you need good ones. I can't remember if they are Ford or aftermarket, but they are good. They came from Ian's Cougar(BMW Ian, 
)
)
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
I've got a set of refurbished front LCAs, of you need good ones. I can't remember if they are Ford or aftermarket, but they are good. They came from Ian's Cougar(BMW Ian,
Sending you PM!
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
Ugh, the temperature saga continues. And unless I got something that's reading wrong, I think these temps are correct...
The pictures of me using the temp laser was as soon as I parked my car at home.
FWIW, I notice that my temps go down when I'm cruising at slower speeds. What's up with that? Like, how could less airflow make the engine run cooler? Is because of less strain on the engine (RPMs)?
High temp of 240F recorded, 235 at this moment.
On the upper hose - 215F
On the water pump - 228F
On the crossover, part 1 - 227F
On the crossover, part 2 - 239F
On the radiator - 187F
The pictures of me using the temp laser was as soon as I parked my car at home.
FWIW, I notice that my temps go down when I'm cruising at slower speeds. What's up with that? Like, how could less airflow make the engine run cooler? Is because of less strain on the engine (RPMs)?
High temp of 240F recorded, 235 at this moment.
On the upper hose - 215F
On the water pump - 228F
On the crossover, part 1 - 227F
On the crossover, part 2 - 239F
On the radiator - 187F
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Still no transmission temperature reading? Because that's been an unknown so far, and transmission temperature goes up with cruising speed based on my observations.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Aren't your revs a bit high? I wonder if your torque converter is slipping. Can anyone else chime in? I don't usually cruise at that speed, but from memory the revs look about 100 rpm too high (?).
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
I have to get more familiar with transmission settings in Torque Pro. There are no native transmission settings so I need to customize it to make it happen. I need to read more on this function before I do it.
CDsDontBurn
PostWhore
It feels fine. No slipping or anything from what I can tell, including torque converter shudder.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
I may be totally off target here, but based on my calculations, at 76 mph, your revs should be 2,196 rpm, assuming a 3.27 final drive ratio and 0.7 top gear, as well as 225-60-16 tires.
Based on the same calculations, at 60 mph, your revs should be 1,734 rpm.
Your revs are at 2,309 at 76 mph. I think there's something going on there. That would also explain some less than expected fuel economy. Do you remember when that screen shot was taken? Uphill/downhill? Cruise control on/off?
Again, I may be totally wrong. Wait for others to chime in in the morning.
Based on the same calculations, at 60 mph, your revs should be 1,734 rpm.
Your revs are at 2,309 at 76 mph. I think there's something going on there. That would also explain some less than expected fuel economy. Do you remember when that screen shot was taken? Uphill/downhill? Cruise control on/off?
Again, I may be totally wrong. Wait for others to chime in in the morning.
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Those lil' schitz...
Grog6
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You should find an xcal2, if you can.
Did you ever end up using the coil cleaner on the radiator and condenser? I'd even consider taking the radiator out for that. What did the old coolant look like when you drained it? I remember mine got pretty warm when driving through Death Valley on the way back, but it was 100 degrees and we had the A/C on. Mine has always run a little warmer than I thought it should just based on the factory gauge even with a new water pump and radiator. I've never bothered connecting an actual gauge to see what it is running at though.
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Remember that when you do a calculation for a tire size, final drive ratio, transmission ratio and speed, you're calculating for actual vehicle speed and RPM. This rarely ever occurs in reality with speedo gears meshing at non-infinite ratios.
The PCM (and speedometer) need 1000 rotations from the VSS to know that the car has gone one mile. The final drive ratio, tire size and transmission output shaft:speedo drive gear relationship needs to be perfect for this to happen.
With a 7 tooth output shaft drive gear, an 18 tooth speedometer gear, 3.27 final drive ratio, that would mean the tire needs to turn 786 times to drive the car one mile for the speedo to be perfectly accurate. Speedo is related to transmission output shaft RPM. In overdrive with 0% slip, that would mean 1799 RPM equates to a perfect 60 MPH.
Since the speedo drive gear doesn't change based on tire size variations, actual vehicle speed and PCM reported speed (read by the drive gear) are usually different by a nominal margin.
With these factors in mind, a perfect 76.00 MPH would be 2268 RPM. 79 MPH would be 2309 RPM. Since he was turning 2306 RPM, a PCM reported speed of 76 MPH is perfectly normal, even moreso accounting for a few RPM of slip across the TCC. If he has a taller tire with fewer revs/mile (likely) then the car is probably moving faster than what the PCM indicates.