Where in the hell are the washers?

I'd snag a set from a jy. You might get lucky and find good bushings. rethreading a stripped thread doesn't work. I' d wonder about that shop, if they did that.
 
Grog6 said:
I'd snag a set from a jy. You might get lucky and find good bushings. rethreading a stripped thread doesn't work. I' d wonder about that shop, if they did that.
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Agreed, the right solution is a good used strut rod. I strongly suspect this might have been an issue going back to the beginning of these issues, since the originals were removed. They probably mangled the threads getting the old sleeves off
 
Grog6 said:
I'd snag a set from a jy. You might get lucky and find good bushings. rethreading a stripped thread doesn't work. I' d wonder about that shop, if they did that.
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I may of used the wrong terminology. Idk. He straightened threads that were crossed and mangled. it still looks awful, but he was able to get them tight
 
You can retap threads to clean them up. But I won't. I care too much about suspension parts.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
If the strut rods threads were stripped that really goes a long way towards explaining your persistent issues. I’m less confident the hole in the K member is bad, it’s reinforced and you’d be able to tell if it was that severely damaged.

Shocks binding in turns is impossible, because they’re not struts, they only go up and down so what’s there to bind? The shock to LCA bolts can bind if tightened at droop but that’s about it and extremely easy to fix for a shop
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edit im now realizing it will be impossible for any of you to hear the pop with the muffler delete, but i swear on my life its there.. smh. If anyone has an equalizer for their headphones just turn down bass for a second and then you should hear it. its right as i center the wheel and get onto level ground from a slope

I understand, but, the binding may be less in the steering itself, and more just the weight shifting on the said slopes/ turns. I have just done a terrible job at being able to explain it. I do see that as a possibility the lca- strut bolt, however, all of this had been discussed, and he seemed pretty confident about doing the work. The feeling didnt change what so ever with the new arms, unless he just did the exact same thing the last shop did without telling me


Just to clear things up. It is specifically when coming into something like my driveway if i go over a slope/ hole or tight turns where the weight shifts or the car is moving down a slope.

I also removed my inlinks again just out of curiosity. the binding stayed, and the mech still thinks its just the strut rods binding at certain ranges.


Here is a video of said pop- i am correcting my steering but the pop happens at the cars weight settles after a sloped turn.. i can do circles all day in a flat lot with no issues

If it still cannot be a shock, and he torqued my stuff properly i really dont know what else it would be. If its safe for me to put the car on ramps and loosen those bolts and let it settle. i would attempt that to verify.


there are a lot of things to talk about in this photo, im overwhelmed but i assure the gas gauge, and evap code are the least of my concerns, let alone the door ajar light that is constantly on. I was about to head straight to the gas station
 
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well shoot, i retorqued the lower lca- shock bolt after bouncing the bumper a few times and letting it settle, the popping, atleast for now is gone?
I have had multiple instances of doing something and then having a placebo effect of " oh i drove around for 3 minutes and it didnt pop fixo doneso" ;o so ill update after a day or two

i have done quite a few things thinking ive solved the puzzle. just for it to rear its head right back around when it feels like it. so ima give it a day or 2 and see if it stays gone, and im taking the car back for a final alignment anyways and having stuff re checked. He wants to make sure the oem style bushings i spent a fortune on are seating properly after driving considering they were forced in there so badly by the last shop.

also, im 120lbs on a good day, and 120ft lbs was not fun laying on my back... that is the highest i could get either to go and ive seen anywhere from 125-150 reccomended so i got it tight as i could
 
pulled into the drive today to feel a pop, so i can check that off the list
 
Hey guys, quick update. I think i may have found something, but im no technician and id rather not touch this jam nut... is it supposed to be loose?
I mean, i can move the lip in and out of the frame by almost a quarter inch after removing the front nut/ bushing.

also about to check and see if its the same deal on the passenger side.

 
KevinVarnes said:
Uhhh. Where is the nut and washer on the other side???!??!?!??
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i removed it because i was trying to get a look at the sleeves, and the threads. everything else was in place and not moving. Im just curious why they werent tightened evenly unless its ok for the jam nut to have some slack? The other side was not like this if i removed the front bushing the rear would firmly stay in the frame hole with the washer right against the sleeve
 
That's an alignment point, no, it's not supposed to be loose. That keeps the wheel centered in the wheelwell. That's the frame side strut rod bushing. This needs both bolts tightened, while maintaining the wheel where it belongs. On an alignment machine.
 
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If the front bushing isn’t attached it’s going to have slack as there’s nothing holding it together except the tension of the LCA bushing, doesn’t really prove anything

The Hole for the K member looks fine to me though I know you’ve been concerned with that
 
XR7-4.6 said:
If the front bushing isn’t attached it’s going to have slack as there’s nothing holding it together except the tension of the LCA bushing, doesn’t really prove anything

The Hole for the K member looks fine to me though I know you’ve been concerned with that
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So im probably left with stripped threads? I was able to get a video of the rain noise. Feels/ sounds exactly like when the moog bushings blew. So im just confused why they arent seating (the new moog bushings after the first set to explode did the exact same thing). I made sure that the rod was centered and snugged them both down with the weight on the ground and if anything the popping got worse. alignment feels about the same although i probably clucked it up. doesnt really matter to me because its getting ripped apart again soon and still drives straight after trying to snug the bushings.

My mech raised the question about going back to soft compliant bushings, but if the rod itself or frame is damaged i take it this wouldnt make a big difference/ be my issue

 
also just a note, it steers and drives a million times better with all the other stuff that has been done, but the oem rotted out strut rod bushings never made a sound. I didnt see them myself, but the first shop insisted on replacing them..

and now i have had a clunk i cant get rid of for ages that wasnt even there with the "bad bushings"..... the universe is strange

:bdh:
 
It is possible the sleeve is too long and won’t allow for enough preload of the bushings when fully tightened. The sleeve with my continental bushings was about 1/4” shorter than the bushings loosely slipped over it
 
XR7-4.6 said:
It is possible the sleeve is too long and won’t allow for enough preload of the bushings when fully tightened. The sleeve with my continental bushings was about 1/4” shorter than the bushings loosely slipped over it
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I do not disagree with the logic, but this is a new set of sleeves, would the save issue be present with split sleeves/ the moogs I had?

Also. When sliding the front bushing back on mine aswell are probably a quarter inch shorter loosely fitting the bushings
 
LukesCougar said:
I do not disagree with the logic, but this is a new set of sleeves, would the save issue be present with split sleeves/ the moogs I had?

Also. When sliding the front bushing back on mine aswell are probably a quarter inch shorter loosely fitting the bushings
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It’s not a matter of the sleeves being split or not(split is always inferior) it’s a matter of the length of the sleeves. I have no idea what SCP uses for sleeves but I do know it’s not what comes in the Continental bushing kit I have as I had to hog them out a bit to fit the metric strut rods. If what SCP includes are longer than those sleeves they may need to be cut back to give the bushings some preload when tightened. Like I said, with the bushings together and uninstalled the sleeve was about 1/4” shorter than them,
 
So first off. This was not the source of my popping.. sadly.. but whoever put these washers on put one size too small on there, and they are both warped and the threads were basically eating the washers1000013547.jpg

Really getting tired of not being able to figure out exactly what is wrong. Would it be the end of the world if I tore apart the strut rod assembly myself to get a good look for damage/ check and see if I can't get the bushings to load properly myself?

I thought counting threads and a torque wrench might get me somewhere. Cant mess it up any more than prior mechanics have right?

I did try to tighten the front nuts. Popping only got louder/ changed behavior slightly.

I do remember when I first got the kit the sleeve pretty much came end to end on the bushings fitting them together (not on the car or strut rod) loosely fitting them to the frame/ strut rod there is about a quarter inch of room for pre load, but I am still wondering if the orientation of my bushings may be an issue. In my mind the jam nut wouldn't be compressing the lipped bushing as much as if it were on the front, and may have more wiggle room without the strut rod being centered at the end of the assembly. does the rear of the sub frame also have a lip to hold the lipped bushing or is the hole flat instead of tapered on the inner side? I'm aware these lincoln busbings are basically just pucks, but im thinking I might aswell swap them around and see if something changes
 
I think the bushing orientation is fine the way you have it, and think I installed mine that way(like I also said I really don’t think it matters). The sleeve length as I described with mine was a 1/4”-3/16” shorter than the bushings completely removed, so if they were flush in that scenario for you that may well be the problem. Poly shouldn’t be as preloaded as rubber but there still needs to be some

The K member hole only has the “lip” on one side but functionally it won’t matter with these bushings, they’re molded identically with the only exception being the lip on the one it doesn’t matter the orientation the main face of the bushing is contacting the frame the same regardless(that’s why I don’t think it really matters outside assembly convenience)
 
XR7-4.6 said:
I think the bushing orientation is fine the way you have it, and think I installed mine that way(like I also said I really don’t think it matters). The sleeve length as I described with mine was a 1/4”-3/16” shorter than the bushings completely removed, so if they were flush in that scenario for you that may well be the problem. Poly shouldn’t be as preloaded as rubber but there still needs to be some

The K member hole only has the “lip” on one side but functionally it won’t matter with these bushings, they’re molded identically with the only exception being the lip on the one it doesn’t matter the orientation the main face of the bushing is contacting the frame the same regardless(that’s why I don’t think it really matters outside assembly convenience)
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i will mention the sleeve length to mech then. The prior shop did have to "shim" the moog bushings after the first couple of failures. Does this point to anything out of the norm ? It was all moog stuff that had held fine until the first set exploded, and then the next set they installed werent getting tight so they told me they would shim it

edit: the behavior of the popping really didnt change between the last set of moogs that were still holding, and the lincoln continentals, each with their own sleeve. so im still wondering if the frame is warped and its just not visible to the eye, but when he rips it back apart i still plan on asking for pictures. Also it would still bind up on slopes just like these bushings are doing, but the clunk in forward and reverse had gone away all aside from the weird rain incidents after they shimmed it
 
LukesCougar said:
i will mention the sleeve length to mech then. The prior shop did have to "shim" the moog bushings after the first couple of failures. Does this point to anything out of the norm ? It was all moog stuff that had held fine until the first set exploded, and then the next set they installed werent getting tight so they told me they would shim it
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Where/how did they shim them? I don’t remember you mentioning that tidbit but in all my instantly imagined scenarios yes that is most definitely out of the norm.

Definitely let your mechanic know, Energy suspension designed these bushings for the length of sleeve in the Continental kit, where Bill at SCP might spec a little more sleeve length for safety margin. Either way, take both bushings out, put the sleeve in them and if it’s flush it’s too long. Grind 3/16” off the sleeve and reinstall. If there’s still clunks take off another 1/16”. I think this may well be the silver bullet for your issues
 
XR7-4.6 said:
Where/how did they shim them? I don’t remember you mentioning that tidbit but in all my instantly imagined scenarios yes that is most definitely out of the norm.

Definitely let your mechanic know, Energy suspension designed these bushings for the length of sleeve in the Continental kit, where Bill at SCP might spec a little more sleeve length for safety margin. Either way, take both bushings out, put the sleeve in them and if it’s flush it’s too long. Grind 3/16” off the sleeve and reinstall. If there’s still clunks take off another 1/16”. I think this may well be the silver bullet for your issues
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they shimmed the front/ frame bushings because they "couldnt get them tight" i thought i mentioned this. Maybe not As to how? not sure. i would assume oversized washer but the car wasnt setup like that for very long because i wanted to get away from the moog bushings at the frame. this was prior to buying the scp kit and having the same issues
 
LukesCougar said:
they shimmed the front/ frame bushings because they "couldnt get them tight" i thought i mentioned this. Maybe not As to how? not sure. i would assume oversized washer but the car wasnt setup like that for very long because i wanted to get away from the moog bushings at the frame. this was prior to buying the scp kit and having the same issues
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also this was with the split sleeves that came with the moog kit. Same issue with solid sleeve that came with scp kit
 
I mean there’s validity to the idea, shimming the bushings accomplishes the same thing as shortening the sleeves effectively but the shims would have had to been as wide minimum as the bushings and that’s not something you just get from a parts store or even hardware store.
 
XR7-4.6 said:
I mean there’s validity to the idea, shimming the bushings accomplishes the same thing as shortening the sleeves effectively but the shims would have had to been as wide minimum as the bushings and that’s not something you just get from a parts store or even hardware store.
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with my luck, i see the possibility of having to shorten both the moog sleeve and scp sleeve... but why else would it need shortened if they are the proper length? which i will find out soon. probably tearing it apart late tonight or early tomorrow.

or worst case the shop will let me know when they get it back apart, but im itching to myself cause i keep getting postponed.
 
When I did split sleeves they crushed to length. They weren't removable.
 
LukesCougar said:
with my luck, i see the possibility of having to shorten both the moog sleeve and scp sleeve... but why else would it need shortened if they are the proper length? which i will find out soon. probably tearing it apart late tonight or early tomorrow.

or worst case the shop will let me know when they get it back apart, but im itching to myself cause i keep getting postponed.
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Shortening the sleeves effectively would be A LOT easier, and though it’s probably not a great comfort, the factory two piece sleeves actually required shortening in the kit Ford provided
 
Grog6 said:
When I did split sleeves they crushed to length. They weren't removable.
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If they crushed they failed as sleeves IMO the big failing of split sleeve strut rod bushings is they don’t only pivot up/down but also rotate slightly, what do you think a deformed split sleeve does to a softer material in that scenario? It’s a knife through butter.
 
out of curiosity I just bought an used oem original factory set of front strut rod bushings, with slight cracks in some spots but overall looking really good.

i also bought the mevotech original grade to compare when they arrive, or to keep as extra if it actually arrives as the picture describes. 8$

Im gonna run the lincoln continentals if i can get them to work, look into shortening the sleeve, but from an install and go standpoint id feel safer going back to factory, and keeping the lincolns around as backups until i can work the sleeve or get it installed properly. Spent 130$ on them so i dont plan on just getting rid of them

only issue is im gonna assume ill need to source sleeves and oem washers aswell. washers seem like the easy part
 
OEM sleeves are going to be the hard part. I think I mentioned it earlier, but TBSC used to sell their own version of the OEM two piece sleeves. You can try to hit them up if you want. Maybe they still have some. I am just going to run my DOM sleeves when I do mine.
 
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