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Another 3.5/3.7 timing chain and water pump job. This one is a turbski. I broke down and bought the cam holder/alignment plates for this job since I have to get into the secondary chains and phasers. Somebody has already been in there once. I saw a blob or rtv on the front phaser. Worst part of this job is snaking the front cover into place without touching anything and then stabbing it perfectly into place. I'm usually in here for water pumps, but this one actually has a stretched chain.
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I'm not mad at the water pump in the engine. That's no different than any other front wheel drive timing belt job in my opinion. I'm mad about having to put form in place gasket maker along the entire perimeter of the front cover and then snake it in between the inner fender and the engine without touching anything and then torque it down in three steps all within like 25 seconds. I think the first time I did one I practiced dropping the timing cover in place for a good two hours before I got up the gumption to apply the goop.
 
Cars with timing belts almost always have ample room to get to everything because they are designed with the expectation that you will have to replace the belt periodically. But a timing chain, at least theoretically, never needs to be replaced, so there was no incentive to make it easy to get the timing cover off and on. So given that the cover is never meant to be removed, if you’re going to put the water pump behind that, you had better make damn sure it is robust enough that failures are almost unheard of. But they didn’t. So what this really is, is shit engineering, combined with shit build quality, all hocked to the customer on the basis that they don’t know any better. It genuinely offends me, and I refuse to be the one who suffers because of it. If you want me to do it, I’m going to do it the way that is pleasant and comfortable and stress-free, and you’re going to pay for my time to take the engine out, because I didn’t design it, or build it, or buy it.
 
MadMikeyL said:
Cars with timing belts almost always have ample room to get to everything because they are designed with the expectation that you will have to replace the belt periodically. But a timing chain, at least theoretically, never needs to be replaced, so there was no incentive to make it easy to get the timing cover off and on. So given that the cover is never meant to be removed, if you’re going to put the water pump behind that, you had better make damn sure it is robust enough that failures are almost unheard of. But they didn’t. So what this really is, is shit engineering, combined with shit build quality, all hocked to the customer on the basis that they don’t know any better. It genuinely offends me, and I refuse to be the one who suffers because of it. If you want me to do it, I’m going to do it the way that is pleasant and comfortable and stress-free, and you’re going to pay for my time to take the engine out, because I didn’t design it, or build it, or buy it.
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I paid the dealer $2,400 to do the water pump job on my wife's Taurus back at the end of 2018. Considering the turnaround time of next day and time of year (2 days before Christmas), I thought it was a more than reasonable price.

How did they do it so quickly, I'm not sure, but my guess is that they dropped the engine.
 
CDsDontBurn said:
I paid the dealer $2,400 to do the water pump job on my wife's Taurus back at the end of 2018. Considering the turnaround time of next day and time of year (2 days before Christmas), I thought it was a more than reasonable price.

How did they do it so quickly, I'm not sure, but my guess is that they dropped the engine.
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Honestly it is faster to do it in the car vs dropping the engine, but it is just miserable. Everything is tight, bolts are hard to get to, and there is no way to not make a mess with the RTV trying to sneak the timing cover back into place. If time was a factor, I’d do it in the car, and with no distractions I’d get it done in a day, but it would be an absolutely miserable day, and I’m sure the stress of fighting with it would be taking at least another day off the end of my life. The first time I dropped the engine to do it, everything was so easy to get to, I decided the couple extra hours of labor was well worth it to not be stressing out the whole time.
 
MadMikeyL said:
Cars with timing belts almost always have ample room to get to everything because they are designed with the expectation that you will have to replace the belt periodically. But a timing chain, at least theoretically, never needs to be replaced, so there was no incentive to make it easy to get the timing cover off and on. So given that the cover is never meant to be removed, if you’re going to put the water pump behind that, you had better make damn sure it is robust enough that failures are almost unheard of. But they didn’t. So what this really is, is shit engineering, combined with shit build quality, all hocked to the customer on the basis that they don’t know any better. It genuinely offends me, and I refuse to be the one who suffers because of it. If you want me to do it, I’m going to do it the way that is pleasant and comfortable and stress-free, and you’re going to pay for my time to take the engine out, because I didn’t design it, or build it, or buy it.
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I hear you brother. I guess I don't feel like the clearance is any worse than doing a timing belt on a 3.5 in a Pilot or Odyssey and you're still constantly up and down on that job. If somebody made a molded gasket for this job it would make it 100x easier. The old Mazda/Ford 3.0 that the 3.5 took over for had a timing cover gasket. Then again, those things leaked oil like it was their job.
 
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And it begins...
 
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I have called and sent a few emails. Voicemail is full, emailed are not returned. Not sure what to do at this point. The first 2 bends I looked at were the worst. Afraid I need to just use this shit to get the car operational
 
You can buy universal mandrel bend kits on summit racing for like $180. At this point, I would buy one of those and replace the offending bends by welding in real mandrel bends. Actually after seeing your issues with them, and given that I’m doing the exhaust on my 91, I decided not to bother ordering from them, and instead ordered a universal 2.5” mandrel kit, and a universal 3”mandrel kit, and will be welding together a dua 2.5 to single 3 to dual 2.5 setup.
 
MadMikeyL said:
You can buy universal mandrel bend kits on summit racing for like $180. At this point, I would buy one of those and replace the offending bends by welding in real mandrel bends. Actually after seeing your issues with them, and given that I’m doing the exhaust on my 91, I decided not to bother ordering from them, and instead ordered a universal 2.5” mandrel kit, and a universal 3”mandrel kit, and will be welding together a dua 2.5 to single 3 to dual 2.5 setup.
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If I could weld, I would. I may put it together as is for the season and then get them fixed next spring.
 
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