Prognosis: number THREE climate control head’s dead. Blend door actuator is A-ok, tested it, took it apart and changed to new dielectric for posterity.
BTW it’s not hard to get at, just take the airbag out
What did you do with your Thunderbird Today?
- Thread starter Trunk Monkey
- Start date
Prognosis: number THREE climate control head’s dead. Blend door actuator is A-ok, tested it, took it apart and changed to new dielectric for posterity.
BTW it’s not hard to get at, just take the airbag out
And done. Tried a head I thought was dead when I was having issue with the blower(which turned out to be an intermittently bad PWM throwing me off track. Turns out it’s perfectly fine.
I’m doubly happy, this particular SATC head displays outside temp by default
I’m doubly happy, this particular SATC head displays outside temp by default
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How do you make it do that?
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Because? I mean is that a setting? Some sort of customized circuit? Or a glitch?
I just added a relay into the switch circuit. Only works on 1994 heads with the green circuit board, the later ones cancel the O/T if you’re holding the button down where the 94 one will display it infinite, which I exploited. The downside is you can’t do the self diagnostic test
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
That sounds like something someone described a while ago: they had O/D OFF wired to be active when turning on the ignition. Can't remember who it was.
I would like that also.
I recall them saying it was in the tune.
I may be wrong though.
You can’t do that via tune with these cars, I think it only works in newer(2000s to present) PCMs
What about guitar maestro
Attachments
In his case he might have had a legendary Jerry tune with the "hidden parameters" altered to allow it. For us civilians even with PRP it cant be altered.
Grog6
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IIrc, he used a one shot circuit with a 555 timer chip and a relay. our system looks for a button press, like a keyboard. it won't work on a closure only. Keyboards read wen you let go of the key.
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I could email Don (or any of us who have bought the PRP from him) and ask if he knows of a way. He sent me a value file to fix the 127.5 3-4 shift bug, which he said was 100% Jerry's work.
I replaced one of the 3157 switchback LED bulbs I use for my DRLs with new ones because an old one had its white LEDs on the fritz.
I documented the original bulb shopping experience in the old forum especially for the corner taillights, but there were two things that stood out this time when buying replacement switchbacks for the front.
First, buying bulbs with the exact same form factor and appearance from different Amazon brands/sellers doesn't mean you get the same LED chips. In this case, there was a difference between a more established (still Chinese) Amazon brand's offering versus a less reputable one even though the bulbs look the same. The first replacement set I ordered from the less established brand had paler amber LEDs than my previous bulbs. Then I placed another order with the same Amazon seller that I bought the switchbacks from several years ago. They were a perfect color match for both the amber and white.
Second, I never nailed down the cause before, but I have accidental sequential turn signals when the DRLs are on and the parking lights are off. It turns out that it's because the bulbs send the power signal to the white LEDs first. The amber is able to come on without delay only after the white has been activated.
With my original set of bulbs, this worked without pre-illuminating the white LEDs, so you would only see the slight delay of the outer bulbs because the inner bulbs are always lit with ignition on, thus its ambers will illuminate before the outers. This gives the appearance of fast sequential turn signals when the parking lights are off. When the parking lights are on, they're synchronized.
With the replacement bulbs, I see a flicker when the white LEDs get the signal before the amber activates, so there's a very fast and barely noticeable white-amber strobe effect with each blink. To avoid that, I kept the new pair of bulbs in the DRL positions and have my original switchback bulbs at the corners. I could address this properly by shopping for a completely different set of four switchback bulbs, but that would cost more than $16 and I don't want to possibly give up my accidental sequentials.
I'm usually very particular about accessory LED bulbs to the point where I will not hesitate to shop at VLEDS to get a specific color temperature, brightness, or beam pattern like I did for the trunk, but paying $80 for their 3157 switchbacks was an emphatic hell no. The deflectors in the headlight assembly for the inner and outer 3157 bulbs give you more bulb choice flexibility by not outputting light directly forward against onlookers. I could have gone with any number of fancier switchback LED bulbs from $25-138 a pair, but they don't make sense here when the forward light is shrouded.
Also, the black anodization on these bulbs is known to be crap. The old bulb on the left also started as black, but give it five years and it turns bronze. I didn't care about this with the original set and I don't care now. They're not easily visible since they're behind the deflectors.
I documented the original bulb shopping experience in the old forum especially for the corner taillights, but there were two things that stood out this time when buying replacement switchbacks for the front.
First, buying bulbs with the exact same form factor and appearance from different Amazon brands/sellers doesn't mean you get the same LED chips. In this case, there was a difference between a more established (still Chinese) Amazon brand's offering versus a less reputable one even though the bulbs look the same. The first replacement set I ordered from the less established brand had paler amber LEDs than my previous bulbs. Then I placed another order with the same Amazon seller that I bought the switchbacks from several years ago. They were a perfect color match for both the amber and white.
Second, I never nailed down the cause before, but I have accidental sequential turn signals when the DRLs are on and the parking lights are off. It turns out that it's because the bulbs send the power signal to the white LEDs first. The amber is able to come on without delay only after the white has been activated.
With my original set of bulbs, this worked without pre-illuminating the white LEDs, so you would only see the slight delay of the outer bulbs because the inner bulbs are always lit with ignition on, thus its ambers will illuminate before the outers. This gives the appearance of fast sequential turn signals when the parking lights are off. When the parking lights are on, they're synchronized.
With the replacement bulbs, I see a flicker when the white LEDs get the signal before the amber activates, so there's a very fast and barely noticeable white-amber strobe effect with each blink. To avoid that, I kept the new pair of bulbs in the DRL positions and have my original switchback bulbs at the corners. I could address this properly by shopping for a completely different set of four switchback bulbs, but that would cost more than $16 and I don't want to possibly give up my accidental sequentials.
I'm usually very particular about accessory LED bulbs to the point where I will not hesitate to shop at VLEDS to get a specific color temperature, brightness, or beam pattern like I did for the trunk, but paying $80 for their 3157 switchbacks was an emphatic hell no. The deflectors in the headlight assembly for the inner and outer 3157 bulbs give you more bulb choice flexibility by not outputting light directly forward against onlookers. I could have gone with any number of fancier switchback LED bulbs from $25-138 a pair, but they don't make sense here when the forward light is shrouded.
Also, the black anodization on these bulbs is known to be crap. The old bulb on the left also started as black, but give it five years and it turns bronze. I didn't care about this with the original set and I don't care now. They're not easily visible since they're behind the deflectors.
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1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
^^^this deserves its own thread. But now that we're here:
Looks great! I like that sorta sequential thing!
So...I'd love to know how you went about wiring DRLs since I have done a lot with that subject, ultimately using a GM control unit.
Am I understanding correctly that your inboard lights are all of this?
Looks great! I like that sorta sequential thing!
So...I'd love to know how you went about wiring DRLs since I have done a lot with that subject, ultimately using a GM control unit.
Am I understanding correctly that your inboard lights are all of this?
- Parking lights? White/dim
- DRLs? White/bright
- Turn signals? Amber/bright
This was a few years ago and I've never been great at comprehending electrical myself, so I had some help on this. That being said, the DRLs tap the ignition. The inner sockets are not currently connected to the parking light circuit. Those sockets have three wires with quick disconnect terminals on one wire to allow me to switch whether it's connected to the circuit for the ignition or the parking lights, and of course, they're always connected to the turn signals.
The switchback LEDs have no provisions for white/dim illumination.
The switchback LEDs have no provisions for white/dim illumination.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
No. Which regulation is that? There isn't anything on the federal books for DRLs that I can find, and the US DOT is generally spineless anyway. There are other cars that also don't do that from the factory.
I have retrofitted HID projectors. I'm already technically non-compliant in the eyes of some followers of a particular popular flashlight forum that have a stick up their ass about light output compliance.
I'll start worrying about it when the authorities start pulling over blatant troublemakers like users of LED light bars on the bumpers of lifted trucks,, or me back in mid-aughts when I had HID bulbs in the stock reflector housings (and regretted shortly following installation after I effectively blinded the driver ahead of me through his rear view mirror while we waited at a traffic light), or this joker:
I have retrofitted HID projectors. I'm already technically non-compliant in the eyes of some followers of a particular popular flashlight forum that have a stick up their ass about light output compliance.
I'll start worrying about it when the authorities start pulling over blatant troublemakers like users of LED light bars on the bumpers of lifted trucks,, or me back in mid-aughts when I had HID bulbs in the stock reflector housings (and regretted shortly following installation after I effectively blinded the driver ahead of me through his rear view mirror while we waited at a traffic light), or this joker:
The #UGA hummer is real! I just saw it at Home Depot playing a Dawgs highlight reel on the back. @DavinBellamy17 & @MBStadium getting some serious face time on the streets of ATL @FootballUGA pic.twitter.com/JMOBZWIfTj
— Cody Chaffins (@CodyChaffins) December 7, 2017
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1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
I hear you.
But for the record, this is the regulation I was referring to:
www.ecfr.gov
"Automatically activated as determined by the vehicle manufacturer and automatically deactivated when the headlamp control is in any “on” position."
But for the record, this is the regulation I was referring to:
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.ecfr.gov
"Automatically activated as determined by the vehicle manufacturer and automatically deactivated when the headlamp control is in any “on” position."
My current project is right on this topic…ish; wiring the bright end of the parking light bulbs into DRLs.
Basically I’m putting a relay per side(two total) and am running ignition to 87a and the output to 30, illuminating them at all times the key is in ignition.
For turn signals I’m taking advantage of the unused cornering light circuits off the MFS and in essence am using the feeds of those and the standard parking light wiring to energize two relay coils(at pin 85 or 86) to turn off the ignition power, energizing them so 87 gets the normal turn signal feed.
This way it should operate so when the turn signals are engaged the constant power feed of the unused cornering lights will turn off ignition from 87a and pass the flasher signal through 87… OR turn off 87a when headlights are on and pass the normal flasher signal when headlights are on. Still working on where to put in the relays, under hood or under dash(I can get the feeds off the PJB at pin 18 and 24) or putting them underhood but one way or another it should work. RalphP(RIP) was my old electrical sanity check (I can solder, route wires and follow diagrams but an engineer I am NOT) but any objections?
Basically I’m putting a relay per side(two total) and am running ignition to 87a and the output to 30, illuminating them at all times the key is in ignition.
For turn signals I’m taking advantage of the unused cornering light circuits off the MFS and in essence am using the feeds of those and the standard parking light wiring to energize two relay coils(at pin 85 or 86) to turn off the ignition power, energizing them so 87 gets the normal turn signal feed.
This way it should operate so when the turn signals are engaged the constant power feed of the unused cornering lights will turn off ignition from 87a and pass the flasher signal through 87… OR turn off 87a when headlights are on and pass the normal flasher signal when headlights are on. Still working on where to put in the relays, under hood or under dash(I can get the feeds off the PJB at pin 18 and 24) or putting them underhood but one way or another it should work. RalphP(RIP) was my old electrical sanity check (I can solder, route wires and follow diagrams but an engineer I am NOT) but any objections?
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1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
@XR7-4.6
You know I went through countless revisions of this.
Cornering feed only has power when headlights are on. So if I read your diagram correctly, you would not have any turn signals when headlights are off.
...and as I said to @Irv , this content really deserves its own thread. I mean I love the Today threads, but this kind of technical stuff would be better preserved for posterity in separate threads.
Just thinking in terms of site growth, etc.
...but even if cornering feed had power when the headlights are off, that would mean that you'd turn on headlights every time you use the turn signals. (Because you're connecting cornering feed and headlight feed.)
...one more thing: you identify ignition as "R" (red). The ignition feed I used for DRLs, always-on cluster lights, and auto-dimming mirror is purple/orange if I remember correctly.
Not saying red is wrong. Just not what I used.
You know I went through countless revisions of this.
Cornering feed only has power when headlights are on. So if I read your diagram correctly, you would not have any turn signals when headlights are off.
...and as I said to @Irv , this content really deserves its own thread. I mean I love the Today threads, but this kind of technical stuff would be better preserved for posterity in separate threads.
Just thinking in terms of site growth, etc.
...but even if cornering feed had power when the headlights are off, that would mean that you'd turn on headlights every time you use the turn signals. (Because you're connecting cornering feed and headlight feed.)
...one more thing: you identify ignition as "R" (red). The ignition feed I used for DRLs, always-on cluster lights, and auto-dimming mirror is purple/orange if I remember correctly.
Not saying red is wrong. Just not what I used.
That’s more referring to the wiring spools I have on hand to run from the actual ignition feed.
You’re right about the cornering light feed being tied to low beams only, damn! Forgot about that. Headlight feed I’d is use a diode or another relay
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Today I helped my son replace the brake booster in his 95 ShitBird. And we helped his friend replace his radiator. rad hoses, water pump and do a complete cooling flush on his 95 Cougar. It was an all MN12 day today.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Got it.
Yeah, if it was that easy I wouldn't have drawn up all those diagrams. I think I ended up with 5 or 6 relays total in my drawings before I dropped the whole thing and just went with that GM control module which does it all.
I'm happy to provide details on that module including wiring diagrams if desired.
ford really half assed EVTM diagrams regarding the MFS which isn’t helping, I’m using my Mark VIII EVTM one for the cornering lights, which is the same with only different connector numbers(c208=c269, c206=c270). If it weren’t for that pesky dimmer switch feed feeding the cornering lights among other things I could so make this system work. The Mark book makes it look standalone, even though it’s clearly not in other sections
It’s also misnumbered, 4&6 should be 3&7
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Right. That circuit 15 feed into the MFS also feeds the high beams/flash to pass and low beams.
I think there should be a full MFS diagram in the troubleshooting section which shows how 15 goes through the MFS.
Agreed.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
So how did you end up wiring that GM module in? I’m certainly open to a non relay alternative/junkyard solution now that I realized I seemingly forgot half the conversation we had a while back after looking through your thread lol
On a separate note, that video reminds me of how the amber 3157s behaved when stock, which mine haven't been for years now. The blinking behavior with the parking lights on was high-low because they were dual filament, not amber/high-off which is what I've gotten accustomed to and prefer.
That reminds me of the challenge I had with the rear corners when I struggled to find bulbs that had good high-low contrast for red. A lot of aftermarket red LED bulbs make both the high and low uniformly brighter but consequently fail to have high-low significantly distinguishable from one another. The Sylvania Zevos were generally good in that regard, but I hated how the Zevo's beam pattern caused a dark shadow in the middle of the red corner lens, which I called the black hole. I bought about 3-4 different designs of red 3157 bulbs and tested them all to find the most ideal set before returning the others.
And that's why a separate amber rear blinker is preferable and the norm everywhere outside of the US.
That reminds me of the challenge I had with the rear corners when I struggled to find bulbs that had good high-low contrast for red. A lot of aftermarket red LED bulbs make both the high and low uniformly brighter but consequently fail to have high-low significantly distinguishable from one another. The Sylvania Zevos were generally good in that regard, but I hated how the Zevo's beam pattern caused a dark shadow in the middle of the red corner lens, which I called the black hole. I bought about 3-4 different designs of red 3157 bulbs and tested them all to find the most ideal set before returning the others.
And that's why a separate amber rear blinker is preferable and the norm everywhere outside of the US.
1997ThunderbirdLXV6
Seasoned PostWhore
Maybe I should write an in-depth how-to thread.
But in short...
A. We need to reiterate what we want: amber bright light which doubles as DRL and turn/hazard in various scenarios:
- Ignition off: hazard
- Ignition on + headlights off:
- DRL when turn/hazard not in use
- Turn/hazard when in use
- Ignition on + headlights on: turn/hazard
The reason such a constant feed doesn't otherwise exist is that the flasher module is wired before the MFS.
So you need a relay or module that introduces a slight delay, transforming the pulsed turn/hazard feed into a constant feed long enough to bridge the off cycle. I considered at some point to use an 80s Ford cornering relay to provide that delay.
Long story short, I ended up feeling like I was trying to reinvent the wheel. That's when I began researching cars that were factory equipped with amber DRLs.
Some such cars are too new. They have integrated body control modules which are huge and have tons of wires of no use to us.
So I had to go back in time far enough to find a car where DRLs were controlled by a stand-alone module.
That's how I ended up with GM late 90s/early 2000s minivans (Silhouette, Ventura, Montana). The module is located under the dash near the driver's left foot.
The module does everything I described under A. above. Technically that module could also control automatic headlights, but I didn't bother with that.
I installed the module, which is the size of a box of cigarettes, under my dash. I don't have the wiring diagrams on my phone, but I can post them tomorrow.
