Chingon's Engine Build

XR7-4.6 said:
Really you just need to take it on a part by part basis. I still roll the dice with used given the opportunity since I’m a cheapskate, but a whole assembled shortblock has a lot to hide until you take it apart where a set of pistons by themselves, crank etc you can spot or inspect before committing to the buy.

Same goes for buying a modified car ten fold; you’re buying someone else’s problems.
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I’m also and avid cheapskate haha from the jump I wanted to take it apart right then and there at the guys house but didn’t have the tools.

The good thing is the crank is in good condition and the H beams look great, I also have the ARP stud kit which is $400 by themselves!! I just posted the block and pistons for $300. Even if I get $200 from this and the $200 from what the guy is gonna refund me I should be $300 into the rods and forged crank. Depending on how the other block is I’m gonna sell this crank also.

at this point I need to get a set of forged pistons. Besides that everything is pretty cheap, bearing, oil pump, gaskets?

question tho, should I have the rotating assembly balanced ?? Some say not necessary, which doesn’t make sense to me. Specially if I’m trying to rev this bitch to 7500!!
 
Chingon1 said:
I’m also and avid cheapskate haha from the jump I wanted to take it apart right then and there at the guys house but didn’t have the tools.

The good thing is the crank is in good condition and the H beams look great, I also have the ARP stud kit which is $400 by themselves!! I just posted the block and pistons for $300. Even if I get $200 from this and the $200 from what the guy is gonna refund me I should be $300 into the rods and forged crank. Depending on how the other block is I’m gonna sell this crank also.

at this point I need to get a set of forged pistons. Besides that everything is pretty cheap, bearing, oil pump, gaskets?

question tho, should I have the rotating assembly balanced ?? Some say not necessary, which doesn’t make sense to me. Specially if I’m trying to rev this bitch to 7500!!
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Yes balance it! Skipping that is how, well, you end up with short locks like yours!(not literally, as I think it’s a tune/boost/nitrous/or all issue but you get the point). It’s not terribly expensive and it’s great insurance even if one piston/rod is only off by only a few grams.

It sounds like you’re on the right track and making lemonade from a lemon, sometimes it’s how it goes and frustrating as it is in the moment it gives the build a good story at least. Good on the seller if he’s making it somewhat right for you!


Be very careful on oil pumps. A lot of Melling ones in particular out there that seem inexpensive aren’t actually mellings but Chinese knock offs with their logos like you see with “cheap”Walbro fuel pumps. The real deal ones aren’t terribly expensive but they’re not necessarily cheap either, you should always source them from a trusted vendor which isn’t necessarily the best value. Plus if you’re spinning or planning to spin to 7500+ you should probably seek out billet oil pump gears which are most definitely not cheap, but at that level pretty necessary as the cast stock and Melling ones can shatter with the high rpm harmonics(once again, balance the rotating assembly!)
 
@XR7-4.6 yea that guy is pretty solid, most people would have been like sorry bud your phucked haha at least he is letting me keep everything. All in all I’m not too upset.

Yea you’re right I should get it balanced, just gotta find a good shop to do it, I know some shops lack the expertise here.

www.summitracing.com

Melling 10341 Melling Performance Oil Pumps | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Melling Performance Oil Pumps with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pumps at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

I have my eye on this pump by melling, supposedly it has hardened gears and flows more than stock.

Now I’m thinking about compression ratio, I wanted to keep it at 10:1 but I heard it’s not good for pump gas and a decent amount of boost. More than likely going to drop down to 9:1.


Also I ended up getting the 6R swap from the FB guy, paid $1500 for everything. I just need a matching flexplate and driveshaft at this point. The shaft will get figured out once it’s bolted together. IMG_8460.pngIMG_8465.png
 
Chingon1 said:
@XR7-4.6 yea that guy is pretty solid, most people would have been like sorry bud your phucked haha at least he is letting me keep everything. All in all I’m not too upset.

Yea you’re right I should get it balanced, just gotta find a good shop to do it, I know some shops lack the expertise here.

www.summitracing.com

Melling 10341 Melling Performance Oil Pumps | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Melling Performance Oil Pumps with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pumps at Summit Racing.
www.summitracing.com www.summitracing.com

I have my eye on this pump by melling, supposedly it has hardened gears and flows more than stock.

Now I’m thinking about compression ratio, I wanted to keep it at 10:1 but I heard it’s not good for pump gas and a decent amount of boost. More than likely going to drop down to 9:1.


Also I ended up getting the 6R swap from the FB guy, paid $1500 for everything. I just need a matching flexplate and driveshaft at this point. The shaft will get figured out once it’s bolted together. View attachment 14799View attachment 14800
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If you’re staying 2V don’t get the High Volume pump, you’re just pushing more oil into the heads without any benefit, plus you’ll need to source a specific high volume pickup tube to work with your pan (96-98 mark VIII)
 
@XR7-4.6 really?? I’ve read is necessary when boosting to keep the bearing happy. I do plan on grabbing a mark 8 pan and pick up for the added quart capacity.
 
Chingon1 said:
@XR7-4.6 really?? I’ve read is necessary when boosting to keep the bearing happy. I do plan on grabbing a mark 8 pan and pick up for the added quart capacity.
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Mark VIII pan is good, oil capacity is what you want. Volume? If you’re concerned about bearings you should see what happens to them when a high volume pump sucks the pan dry!

It really makes zero difference between NA or boosted beyond the centrifugals having an oil line to them, which is a teeny tiny pressure bleed compared to the 4Vs 16 extra lash adjusters from the 2V the HO pumps were designed for. And even then that only came about deep into the 4Vs production, the 2V and 4V actually shared the same pump from 93-95 and some engine builders to this day actually prefer using the 2V pump on 4Vs since they are less prone to flooding the heads at high RPM and sucking a tiny bit of extra power to run them. Both pumps are putting out more than 100PSI above 2000RPM at full operating temps which is more than enough for engine longevity, whether or not there’s boost involved.
 
Chingon1 said:
Also I ended up getting the 6R swap from the FB guy, paid $1500 for everything. I just need a matching flexplate and driveshaft at this point. The shaft will get figured out once it’s bolted together.
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Dude! Was this an idea you already had, or was it because of my thread?

I would love to get in your car when it's done to see what it's like to have a 6R (and all those other goodies)!
 
Hyper eutectic pistons are much cheaper.
If you're going for 7500; you'll need forged pistons. And tuning is critical. That block shows what happens with getting it wrong, either timing, fuel, or nitrous related. We've seen worse. That's the first one I've seen with a liner chipped; piston motion is notvgreat at the bottom of the cylinder, they get waves in the walls down there where the chip is. Builders recommend using a flat hone to reveal waviness in the bore.
 
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@XR7-4.6 im gonna have to look into it further and consult Todd Warren over on the FB engine builder forum. Great guy and a fountain of knowledge. What pump are you running on yours?? And def will be getting the mark oil pan and pick up.

@CDsDontBurn yes for sure!! I’ve been wanting to do the swap for a while but never had the funds for it. I’ll let you know when it’s up and running. Even with my J modded trans I bet it’ll still be way better.

@Grog6 yea forged piistons are easily double haha, it is what it is. The new block is going to get bored over .020 to make sure it’s Str8 and the added cubic inches, which won’t be much anyways. I still would like to tune it myself but I know I’ll be better off getting a legit tune.
 
Chingon1 said:
@XR7-4.6 im gonna have to look into it further and consult Todd Warren over on the FB engine builder forum. Great guy and a fountain of knowledge. What pump are you running on yours?? And def will be getting the mark oil pan and pick up.
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I’ll certainly defer to Todd, he guided me to where I should degree both my latest comp cams as well as my 98 Cobra cams when I first put those in several years back.

Now IF he like me doesn’t recommend a HV pump for a 2V application and to stick with a SOHC pump you won’t actually need the mark pickup even if you get the mark pan. The Mark pan has the pickup in exactly the same place as the Tbird pan, it’s extra quart of capacity strictly comes from the tumor sprouted off of it sideways under the starter.

… also be aware of you do use a HO pump only 96-98 marks used those and the larger diameter pickup. 93-95 use the same pickup as tbirds but still used the larger 6 quart pan.

As for my setup I’m running a NOS 2014 GT500 pump… I know do as I say not as I do 😆 main reason being though the GT500 pump uniquely has a billet back plate vs the cast ones the regular pumps as well as Melling use. I’m too frugal for billet gears so that was my compromise, plus it’s a 4V like the GT500
 
The fix Oscar and I discussed for the oil in the head issue was the was the Livernois drain-back kit; idk if he did or not.
I have a ho oil pump for my build. Saw it and the bearings today, along with the front chain stuff.
I have plastigage...
I'm going to get a new battery; my 2 yo one is sulfated, and the battery charger won't run the fp.
 
@XR7-4.6 ohh I didn’t know that I thought all marks had the bigger pick up tube, good to know I would of been hating if I got the earlier version just to find out it’s the same as my bird haha. Main reason I’d go with that Melling one is because it has the hardened gears which I’m assuming is better than the cheapy cast ones, what are you revving your 4v to?? Is your intake ported?? If not you should really consider that since the 4v loves to rev.

@Grog6 yoi know what I did see that drain back kit, and somebodies cheapy attempt at it, they used bronze valve guides and machined them to fit in the hole 😂 does the drain back make a big difference? I know windage is a big problem and how the drain are literally next to the crank. That can’t be good.



Also also side note, my buddy got the strut rod’s done already, and they look and feel great. I was really looking forward to throwing these on the bird but unfortunately the engine had other plans 😬 I’ll keep you guys posted when they get installed and post a review.

IMG_8513.jpegIMG_8517.jpegIMG_8514.jpeg
 
Chingon1 said:
@XR7-4.6 ohh I didn’t know that I thought all marks had the bigger pick up tube, good to know I would of been hating if I got the earlier version just to find out it’s the same as my bird haha. Main reason I’d go with that Melling one is because it has the hardened gears which I’m assuming is better than the cheapy cast ones, what are you revving your 4v to?? Is your intake ported?? If not you should really consider that since the 4v loves to rev.

@Grog6 yoi know what I did see that drain back kit, and somebodies cheapy attempt at it, they used bronze valve guides and machined them to fit in the hole 😂 does the drain back make a big difference? I know windage is a big problem and how the drain are literally next to the crank. That can’t be good.



Also also side note, my buddy got the strut rod’s done already, and they look and feel great. I was really looking forward to throwing these on the bird but unfortunately the engine had other plans 😬 I’ll keep you guys posted when they get installed and post a review.

View attachment 14805View attachment 14806View attachment 14807
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Those look sexy, hope they work as well as they look!
 
@Zep5.0 i hope so too, FB guys who have done this don’t have any complaints so I should be good 🤔

@Grog6 the fab guy just made it about 2 weeks ago, it’s leeeegit and he built 2. If you interested in ine he can cut it out for you and you assemble or he can do it all.
 
I'd hate to see a shipping cost for that table to TN, let alone cost of materials.
 
Been a while but I’m finally getting the 4.6 back together. Got the 98’ cobra block .020 over and ordered parts to rebuild it.

Unfortunately the cobra crank was no good and I couldn’t afford some forged pistons. Went with a cast crank (which is pretty strong, handles good RPM and power according to Matt Hayes over in a Facebook 4.6 group) Manley H beam rods and some mahle hyper pistons. Sucks but it is what it is. Not planning on making over 450whp….. maybe haha stock cams I doubt it’ll make much over unless I switch to the edlebrock intake and rev it a bit higher.

ARP main and head studs also.

Hope you all had a great Christmas with your family’s!!
 

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Got the cast crank today, it came with clevite rod and king main bearings off rockauto.

Also cleaned up the Manley h beams In preparation for the rest of the parts.


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Chingon1 said:
Got the cast crank today, it came with clevite rod and king main bearings off rockauto.

Also cleaned up the Manley h beams In preparation for the rest of the parts.


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I preface this with the fact that I don't know much about modulars, but would you be better off selling those H beam rods and running a stock set to save more money? I'm running a fully forged bottom end and don't have H beams.

Just thinking you could possibly sell those to pay for other stuff.
 
If the pistons and rods are heavy enough the forged cranks extra weight (and extra counterweights) are easier to get in balance without the need to add Mallory.

For most applications the cast crank is more than adequate
 
Chingon1 said:
Came up today in this C&L plenum and 75mm bbl throttle body for $100 today sweeeeet. Was measuring the dimensions of the underside where it meets the manifold and it’s a tad bigger. Pretty much doesn’t make sense to make it this big if the manifold is gonna be the restriction.




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Just starting to dig through this thread. Great score on the 75mm. Did you look at the one piece 78 mm BBK? I had one for a little while before I got my SVO.

Check it out here:

 
@Zep5.0 i was debating selling em and grabbing a set of boss rods but honestly, everybody is a low baller or lagger. Your running forged I beams?

@XR7-4.6 I’m not sure, I’m am hoping the machine shop won’t have a problem so I can have this sucker back together soon.

@Trunk Monkey i did see those but I just couldn’t pass up the deal in the 75mm way too cheap. The weird part is it was an Asian guy selling it, those guys usually drive Hondas and stuff haha
 
That's the engine I'm building for Lazarus; it's crank ran 6500-7000 rpm for 500k mi, 60 miles at a time, lol. cast 96 cougar; it looks exactly like the mark crank, except for the rust.
Stock lifters are the weakest link, imho.
 
@Grog6 one of the big dogs on the FB forums says the stock lifter from ford are actually pretty good similar to the Trickflow ones. Unless you’re turning serious rpm the stockers are just fine. Not planning on spinning it past 7k mainly due to I doubt the power curve would peak that high and the stock PCM can’t hang much higher than that.

@theterminator93 same, i know the boss rods are the best bang for the buck but i got these Manley for the low so that’s what’s gonna be run.
 
Yeah, I'll be buying new stock lifters, I went thru 96 of them, and found 2 maybe good ones. I went thru 3 sets of dohc head/intake considerations before people found out c-heads with a mach intake will clear a 96 hood with no hole, Which no b-head combo will do.
If I ever find a mach 1 shaker intake, I have a damaged hood for it, lol.
 
I got you, but they're lifters, and followers, to me. At least we don't have rockers or shim buckets,lol. In our cars, they're a pivot that's pretty solid, under oil pressure.
 
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@grog are you going DOHC in your car?? I seen @XR7-4.6 had to cut a lil bit of the underwood to make it fit I believe, which I already chopped mine up haha. Maybe some time next year I’ll 4v swap my bird if things are better.

@XR7-4.6 😅 the only thing they did recommend is upgrading the roller followers to the ford GT because they handles the stresses better at higher RPM’s. What lifter/followers are you running in your 4v? I know you spoke to Todd Warren about it.
 
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